Mancini

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I don't buy this 'sum of its parts' nonsense. It's the same type of logic that led Didsbury Dave to imply Kenny Dalglish, Paul Lambert, Brendon Rogers and Alan Pardew would be preferable to Mancini; because they at least produced teams that perform better than the sum of their parts last season - though not so much this season. I'd rather have evidence that managers can win trophies with their parts. Mancini's won trophies with four clubs so he's done that.

Yes, there's been some regression this year, but there's been regression in our squad too. Last season, Balotelli and Johnson scored 19 goals and 3 assists between them in the league. They haven't been replaced as Sinclair has 0 goals and 0 assists. Meanwhile, the rags have outspent us and bought Van Persie, which undoubtedly strengthened their squad, and did so early on in the window. Unfortunately, that has had the effect of regression. You have to remember anyway, that progression isn't linear. We've had two and a half years of progress, which I have every expectation will resume next season if Mancini is given the chance. You have your good years and your bad years. Have the rags been in constant decline since the treble? Well, no. They've had decline years in which they won nothing, including a trophyless season last year, and including a period where they went without a title for three years on the bounce, and they've had progression years, where they won the title consecutively and added another Champions League. This is a decline year for us, but I'm confident we can bounce back. A poor season, in which we might still win an FA Cup, is not sufficient reason to warrant sacking him when he's had his squad weakened. He deserves another season in which Mancini hasn't been pissed about like he was last summer and this January. Let him make a few marquee signings i.e. the players we were supposedly going for last summer, and failed to sign, and don't make those signings in the last week of the window so he doesn't have pre-season to find out how he can best utilise those players. If he still fails to make progress then, alright, he's got to go.

I think this positively sums up the views of the fans who aren't pedalling the "we didn't win the league this year so the manager must go" line

It's precisely this kind of deliberate and disingenuous misinterpretation of what Mancini's detractors are actually saying, that makes me fucking despair of this site.

"Not winning the league this year" is not an issue. We could finish 4th this season and as long as we had simply been the recipients of umpteen dodgy reffing decisions, or created barrel loads of chances whilst playing decent football, I genuinely wouldn't care. The issue is that we have a manager too stubborn, too blinkered, too one dimensional, both in terms of his tactics, his formations and the assemblage of a hugely expensive squad that is utterly bereft of pace, to learn from his mistakes. Losing games now and then to sides that have simply outplayed us on the day, is not a problem. Losing to the same sides, employing the same tactics against us repeatedly (be it a high press or a parked bus), and having no answers to those tactics, is a problem however. Mancini reminds me of me playing my kids at Call of Duty; trapped in a corner, facing a wall, and marching up against it dementedly like a robot with a chip loose. "Does not compute, does not compute, can't seem to face right way".....followed by plumes of smoke billowing out of its ears.
Add to that his unique method of motivating his team by ranting and waving his arms around, before fucking off home on the first available flight, and he does not inspire confidence.
It's not that he's a shit manager, far from it (he gets plenty right), but he has some severe limitations that are being exposed by opposition teams on an increasing basis. If he stays, I can virtually guarantee you we'll be sitting here this time next year, discussing the same early European exit and the same spineless defeats on Merseyside. For the good of the future progression of the club, the owners need to make the difficult decision of axing him in the summer, and if that makes me a JCL, as one poster would dementedly have it, then so be it.

 

[OB1]

The same Ferguson who blew an 8 point lead last year with a team better than the sum of the parts..?? jesus christ.

You may have noticed that was a blip. The fact that United actually stayed with us last season was a huge achievement.

 

[The Man With The Stick]

Can we afford to change manager?
People keep bangin on about spendin big this summer but have we got any money?
Will Bob stay if the club refuse to spend again?
In UEFAs eyes, we're essentially in the red as far as FFP is concerned aren't we?

 

[Anonymous]

It's precisely this kind of deliberate and disingenuous misinterpretation of what Mancini's detractors are actually saying, that makes me fucking despair of this site.

"Not winning the league this year" is not an issue. We could finish 4th this season and as long as we had simply been the recipients of umpteen dodgy reffing decisions, or created barrel loads of chances whilst playing decent football, I genuinely wouldn't care. The issue is that we have a manager too stubborn, too blinkered, too one dimensional, both in terms of his tactics, his formations and the assemblage of a hugely expensive squad that is utterly bereft of pace, to learn from his mistakes. Losing games now and then to sides that have simply outplayed us on the day, is not a problem. Losing to the same sides, employing the same tactics against us repeatedly (be it a high press or a parked bus), and having no answers to those tactics, is a problem however. Mancini reminds me of me playing my kids at Call of Duty; trapped in a corner, facing a wall, and marching up against it dementedly like a robot with a chip loose. "Does not compute, does not compute, can't seem to face right way".....followed by plumes of smoke billowing out of its ears.
Add to that his unique method of motivating his team by ranting and waving his arms around, before fucking off home on the first available flight, and he does not inspire confidence.
It's not that he's a shit manager, far from it (he gets plenty right), but he has some severe limitations that are being exposed by opposition teams on an increasing basis. If he stays, I can virtually guarantee you we'll be sitting here this time next year, discussing the same early European exit and the same spineless defeats on Merseyside. For the good of the future progression of the club, the owners need to make the difficult decision of axing him in the summer, and if that makes me a JCL, as one poster would dementedly have it, then so be it.

Good post particularly the first couple of lines. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees through the disingenuous bullshit which is being put forward as rational arguments.

 

[OB1]

It's precisely this kind of deliberate and disingenuous misinterpretation of what Mancini's detractors are actually saying, that makes me fucking despair of this site.

"Not winning the league this year" is not an issue. We could finish 4th this season and as long as we had simply been the recipients of umpteen dodgy reffing decisions, or created barrel loads of chances whilst playing decent football, I genuinely wouldn't care. The issue is that we have a manager too stubborn, too blinkered, too one dimensional, both in terms of his tactics, his formations and the assemblage of a hugely expensive squad that is utterly bereft of pace, to learn from his mistakes. Losing games now and then to sides that have simply outplayed us on the day, is not a problem. Losing to the same sides, employing the same tactics against us repeatedly (be it a high press or a parked bus), and having no answers to those tactics, is a problem however. Mancini reminds me of me playing my kids at Call of Duty; trapped in a corner, facing a wall, and marching up against it dementedly like a robot with a chip loose. "Does not compute, does not compute, can't seem to face right way".....followed by plumes of smoke billowing out of its ears.
Add to that his unique method of motivating his team by ranting and waving his arms around, before fucking off home on the first available flight, and he does not inspire confidence.
It's not that he's a shit manager, far from it (he gets plenty right), but he has some severe limitations that are being exposed by opposition teams on an increasing basis. If he stays, I can virtually guarantee you we'll be sitting here this time next year, discussing the same early European exit and the same spineless defeats on Merseyside. For the good of the future progression of the club, the owners need to make the difficult decision of axing him in the summer, and if that makes me a JCL, as one poster would dementedly have it, then so be it.

Good post particularly the first couple of lines. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees through the disingenuous bullshit which is being put forward as rational arguments.

The boy (Exeter) knows his footballing onions.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

What a nonsensical and nonsense reply. Closing your eyes really tightly, sticking your fingers in your ears, and humming really loudly doesn't take away the truth about just how badly wrong Mancini got it yesterday from moment one to leaving without talking to the press and explaining himself and his team.

It's amazing that you could want to so blindly back someone who clearly has limitations both as a manager and as a coach. His ego is absolutely out of control and the writing is on the wall.

One thing keeps sticking in mind regarding your views on Mancini, Billy. It may be a minor point. You wanted him out before we won the FA cup and before we won title.

As I say, probably a minor point.

Very good point and correct

Indeed!

 

[samharris]

The same Ferguson who blew an 8 point lead last year with a team better than the sum of the parts..?? jesus christ.

You may have noticed that was a blip. The fact that United actually stayed with us last season was a huge achievement.

just stating a fact.

 

[robbieh]

People are entitled to their opinions one way or the other regarding RM....thats what this forum is all about after all.

My opinion is we should keep Mancini for at least a few more seasons regardless of success...the reason being is becaus he has got us over playing the best football Ive ever seen a city side play in all my 38 yrs of supporting the club. He has brought success and trophies and that alone I believe entitles him to be given time to answer the challenge that utd and other teams are now setting for us again.

My issue with the opinions of Billyshears and DD (and please correct me if I am wrong in this) is that they have NEVER been in favour of Mancini. I seem to recall (again please correct me if I am wrong) that just after Mancini took over from MH I myself was very critical of mancinis tactics (mainly because I believed we were being too defensive etc) and great supporters of this arguement I was having on here were both Billy and DD......(I stand by my cirticisms at the time of Mancini btw)...however since them Manciini has proved me wrong/changed my mind due to the football we are now playing and the success we have had.......Billyshears and DD have never changed their minds regardless of the success we have had. This to me smacks of wantingt hings to happen to just prove a point and not admit you are wrong or at least not give someone the chance (ie RM) that they are wrong. (despite in my opinion the fact that RM has already proved them wrong by winning the FA cup, winning the league and charity shield)

Again if it wasnt either of Billyshears or DD that were original supporters of my criticisms of RM at the start of his tenure at the club then I appologise.

If it was then both of you (and I respect your opinions and your rights to them) do need to take a long look at yourselves. Why are you not willing to give RM time and patience. He has proved you both (and me) wrong by being successful and bringing a style and standard of play of play that in the 37 years Ive been supporting is easily the best and has been successful.

You cannt possibly say that he wont take us to the next lvl...nor can I say he will but what i can say is that he has earnt the right to try for a few years. I dont want to be like chelsea, constantly chopping and changing managers (whether it brings success or not)..that would be just another club to beat us with from outsiders and diminish any success we did have.

Unlike you Simon I was delighted with Mancini' s early defensivity. It showed me he knew his football. In addition I had never seen a City team that well organized. Even when he threw in a few youngsters in defence the pattern remained the same.

Compared to the defensive shambles under Hughes, and too many other managers to mention, it was a huge step forward. And deserved praise not criticism.

I understand where the cabalists are coming from. After a year it became obvious to me that Hughes was and has since proved to be out of his depth as a premier manager, especially when the chairman has money. Billy and DD obviously feel that Mancini is out of his depth albeit at a higher level than Hughes.

I think most would agree that if Mourinho managed us next year we would probably win the league, whereas with Mancini it would be more a maybe. In the CL we would also go further, would we win it? Proabaly not. But with Mancini I would have to say no chance.

But Mourinho is probably the only manager in world football where we could guarantee this.

And he is not coming, is he? Which leaves us with Laudrup. Pellegrini is not an upgrade, not because he is worse than Roberto but because he will take time to adapt. We seem to be an impatient lot so we need someone to hit the ground running.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

If anybody manages to stumble across a dafter statement than this today,could they please pm me?

Probably could have been put better but the simple point is that they invested a shed load of money in the squad and were expecting to achieve success at some point. Any decent manager should have been capable of delivering that. Mancini hardly took a team of League 2 journeymen and recovering alcoholics to the title did he?

So when Sheikh Mansour ploughs a load of money into City,any success is down to him,yet when Roman ploughs a load of money into Chelsea,Mourinho takes the credit?
How does that work,exactly?

Chelsea were already a decent side before Ambramovich came along. Ranieri wasn't quite good enough to win them the league with Ambramovich's money and Mourinho made the difference. While he was there, the level of performance didn't drop and they won it with over 90 points both seasons. Mancini clearly made the difference over Hughes in the same way.

The question is would Mourinho have achieved success at Chelsea without the money? Even then you could argue that he took Porto to the CL title.

 

[samharris]

People can sit either side of the fence or on it but if anyone believes he's getting the best out of our squad they are, as you said, absolutely wrong. He's definitely not a manager who will get every ounce of quality out of his team. We're not seeing the best of Aguero, Dzeko, Silva, Nasri, or Yaya for a start and I put the blame down to attacking tactics more than individuals (except, to an extent, Nasri... but even he could be playing much better). Defensive players seem to excel the most under Mancini but I always get the feeling our attackers are on some sort of invisible leash being held back and rarely playing to their full potential. We've seen said potential a few times like against Spurs and United but they have almost become folklore now when such high quality performances should be a common occurrence at a top club with top players. We rarely put on an exciting performance anymore unless we play total cannon fodder like Barnsley.

I agree. I wonder if City getting caught on the counter a few times last season made Mancini revert to a more cautious approach?

The same thing happened last season after the QPR game. He reverted to a more cautious formation and we turned a comfortable 5 point lead into an 8 point deficit.

which we caught up on and went on to win.