Mancini

[andyhinch]

It's a bold statement, but it's not based on any insider info whatsoever. It's just my opinion based on what I've picked up from the (admittedly usually unreliable) media and the statements (or lack thereof) by MCFC officials.

I really am convinced that the decision to sack Bobby was made some time ago. If I'm dead wrong, which is certainly quite possible, I'll be the first one here on this thread to take my medicine from the Inners, but I think he'll be sacked not so much for CL failure, 2nd place finish, or other results-based reasons, but rather because of disaffection between him and the squad, and a perception that he will not be able to function seamlessly with Soriano and Txiki. Given what we know about Sheikh Mansour and Chairman al-Khaldoon, I just don't see Bobby as someone they will want to go forward with as the most public face of the club. They are impeccably reserved, courteous, respectful men, and it's impossible for me to see how Bobby's excruciatingly public battles with so many at the club hasn't worn on them over time. For these same reasons, I think, and have always asserted here, that I believe there is ZERO chance of Mou ever managing at City.

I also think there will be massive turnover in the squad which will shock the City community to its core. We simply have to shed some big salaries/names and replace them with top young talent plucked from other clubs' academies. After all, that is the Barca way, is it not?

You did rather put it as fact, I'm comfy if he stays or we find a better replacement if the owners want one.

Yes, I suppose I did, and usually do, most of the time. Sorry if that threw you, but I always assume that unless a poster here provides adequate sourcing, his post is an opinion. 99% of my posts here are mere opinion, as I happily admit.

I applaud your open-minded outlook on Bobby. Pretty rare in this thread, n'est-ce pas?! I agree with you about one thing - we, as fans, must ultimately trust that Sheikh Mansour and Chairman al-Mubarak know what they're doing, whether or not they retain Bobby. So far, I am most impressed with how far they have taken the club in a very short time.

I've always been a bit middle of the road on this, been going for that long I well and truly understand change. Nearly called you a wumming **** but I'm a bit mellow tonight. What will be will be, but it's going to be an interesting summer I think.

 

[Blue Heaven]

Perhaps Milner might be serviceable as a wide mid in a 4-3-3. But overall, we have very little pace in midfield, other than Sinclair aka "The Invisible Man." In such a formation, I imagine that Merlin would play out wide up front, as I don't see him as a wide mid in it. And now that Yaya has reupped, he could only really play as the central mid.

I'm not sure I believe the 4-3-3 is the best choice for English football, but what do you think of a 4-1-3-2? I wonder if Txiki would go for that?

Oh I think 4-3-3 can work fiine in England; after all, Mourinho used it at Chelsea.

I'd see width mainly coming from the wide men in the front three and the full backs. My particular vision would have the midfiled three being more like Madrid's than Barca's, much of the time. Silva would be Ozil and Yaya and A.N. other would be Khedira/ Alonso (ish). However, on occasion, a more Barca like set-up could see Silva as Ineista, Nasri as Silva and Yaya as, well, Yaya in his his Barca days.

I see Miner as a bit part utility player or at another club.

4-3-3 would be the base formation but you'd have to flex it depending on circumstances.

Not sure about 4-1-3-2: I'm not keen on two central strikers at the moment. 4-1-2-3 or, as Rammy referred to earlier, 4-2-3-1. I was happy with Bobby playing the latter formation and think he has struggled to better it. 4-1-2-3 / 4-2-1-3 might better describe the kind of formations that I have in mind but it all starts to get a bit OTT and 4-3-3 is easier to say and sounds more balanced.

Yes, I was thinking about Mou at Chelski when I posted that, and of course, you're quite correct about his success with it. However, I don't see Yaya as the same kind of fit as someone like Essien, and he turns the ball over more than Lampard, IMHO, by forcing the action with his powerful lumbering runs up the middle of the pitch.

Silva and Nasri would have to be dedicated in tracking back, I would think.

I understand your reservations about two-striker setups and agree that the 4-2-3-1 has been Bobby's most successful formation, by far. Which is why I've never understood why he's always complained about getting more and better strikers when his best formation with this squad features only one striker. I also think that Rodwell is the key player in our midfield, if he can only reach and maintain fitness.<br /><br />-- Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:17 pm --<br /><br />

You did rather put it as fact, I'm comfy if he stays or we find a better replacement if the owners want one.

Yes, I suppose I did, and usually do, most of the time. Sorry if that threw you, but I always assume that unless a poster here provides adequate sourcing, his post is an opinion. 99% of my posts here are mere opinion, as I happily admit.

I applaud your open-minded outlook on Bobby. Pretty rare in this thread, n'est-ce pas?! I agree with you about one thing - we, as fans, must ultimately trust that Sheikh Mansour and Chairman al-Mubarak know what they're doing, whether or not they retain Bobby. So far, I am most impressed with how far they have taken the club in a very short time.

I've always been a bit middle of the road on this, been going for that long I well and truly understand change. Nearly called you a wumming **** but I'm a bit mellow tonight. What will be will be, but it's going to be an interesting summer I think.

Well, I guess you might as well have done exactly that... :-) I agree, however, that change, in one form or another, is coming this summer, and it will be fascinating, no matter what form it takes.

 

[LoveCity]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

 

[andyhinch]

Perhaps Milner might be serviceable as a wide mid in a 4-3-3. But overall, we have very little pace in midfield, other than Sinclair aka "The Invisible Man." In such a formation, I imagine that Merlin would play out wide up front, as I don't see him as a wide mid in it. And now that Yaya has reupped, he could only really play as the central mid.

I'm not sure I believe the 4-3-3 is the best choice for English football, but what do you think of a 4-1-3-2? I wonder if Txiki would go for that?

Oh I think 4-3-3 can work fiine in England; after all, Mourinho used it at Chelsea.

I'd see width mainly coming from the wide men in the front three and the full backs. My particular vision would have the midfiled three being more like Madrid's than Barca's, much of the time. Silva would be Ozil and Yaya and A.N. other would be Khedira/ Alonso (ish). However, on occasion, a more Barca like set-up could see Silva as Ineista, Nasri as Silva and Yaya as, well, Yaya in his his Barca days.

I see Miner as a bit part utility player or at another club.

4-3-3 would be the base formation but you'd have to flex it depending on circumstances.

Not sure about 4-1-3-2: I'm not keen on two central strikers at the moment. 4-1-2-3 or, as Rammy referred to earlier, 4-2-3-1. I was happy with Bobby playing the latter formation and think he has struggled to better it. 4-1-2-3 / 4-2-1-3 might better describe the kind of formations that I have in mind but it all starts to get a bit OTT and 4-3-3 is easier to say and sounds more balanced.

Yes, I was thinking about Mou at Chelski when I posted that, and of course, you're quite correct about his success with it. However, I don't see Yaya as the same kind of fit as someone like Essien, and he turns the ball over more than Lampard, IMHO, by forcing the action with his powerful lumbering runs up the middle of the pitch.

Silva and Nasri would have to be dedicated in tracking back, I would think.

I understand your reservations about two-striker setups and agree that the 4-2-3-1 has been Bobby's most successful formation, by far. Which is why I've never understood why he's always complained about getting more and better strikers when his best formation with this squad features only one striker. I also think that Rodwell is the key player in our midfield, if he can only reach and maintain fitness.

-- Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:17 pm --

Yes, I suppose I did, and usually do, most of the time. Sorry if that threw you, but I always assume that unless a poster here provides adequate sourcing, his post is an opinion. 99% of my posts here are mere opinion, as I happily admit.

I applaud your open-minded outlook on Bobby. Pretty rare in this thread, n'est-ce pas?! I agree with you about one thing - we, as fans, must ultimately trust that Sheikh Mansour and Chairman al-Mubarak know what they're doing, whether or not they retain Bobby. So far, I am most impressed with how far they have taken the club in a very short time.

I've always been a bit middle of the road on this, been going for that long I well and truly understand change. Nearly called you a wumming **** but I'm a bit mellow tonight. What will be will be, but it's going to be an interesting summer I think.

Well, I guess you might as well have done exactly that... :-) I agree, however, that change, in one form or another, is coming this summer, and it will be fascinating, no matter what form it takes.

Can't disagree, would love to see a couple of good wingers though, it's something that greats on me a bit.

 

[CC1]

It's a bold statement, but it's not based on any insider info whatsoever. It's just my opinion based on what I've picked up from the (admittedly usually unreliable) media and the statements (or lack thereof) by MCFC officials.

I really am convinced that the decision to sack Bobby was made some time ago. If I'm dead wrong, which is certainly quite possible, I'll be the first one here on this thread to take my medicine from the Inners, but I think he'll be sacked not so much for CL failure, 2nd place finish, or other results-based reasons, but rather because of disaffection between him and the squad, and a perception that he will not be able to function seamlessly with Soriano and Txiki. Given what we know about Sheikh Mansour and Chairman al-Khaldoon, I just don't see Bobby as someone they will want to go forward with as the most public face of the club. They are impeccably reserved, courteous, respectful men, and it's impossible for me to see how Bobby's excruciatingly public battles with so many at the club hasn't worn on them over time. For these same reasons, I think, and have always asserted here, that I believe there is ZERO chance of Mou ever managing at City.

I also think there will be massive turnover in the squad which will shock the City community to its core. We simply have to shed some big salaries/names and replace them with top young talent plucked from other clubs' academies. After all, that is the Barca way, is it not?

Is that why they gave him a 5 year contract - so they could sack him with the maximum amount of compensation? I am pleased that all of this is just your 'opinion'

I've just acknowledged that it is merely opinion, so no need to be upset. The remaining four years on Bobby's contract is not a huge issue, as if he's sacked, he'll get a percentage of that (35-40 % of remaining money, by market standard) as a negotiatied buyout. I rather doubt Sheikh Mansour will base his decision on Bobby over 10 million pounds or so.

I'm not upset - just making my point - like you. 'I rather doubt' Sheikh Mansour will base his decision on this thread!!

 

[FantasyIreland]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

To be fair,they have earnt the psychological edge by continued success.It's up to us to replicate similar,i believe,at home,we have gone someway already towards achieving that.

Similar to Tyson in his prime,often the opponent was beat before the first bell.

 

[Blue Heaven]

Is that why they gave him a 5 year contract - so they could sack him with the maximum amount of compensation? I am pleased that all of this is just your 'opinion'

I've just acknowledged that it is merely opinion, so no need to be upset. The remaining four years on Bobby's contract is not a huge issue, as if he's sacked, he'll get a percentage of that (35-40 % of remaining money, by market standard) as a negotiatied buyout. I rather doubt Sheikh Mansour will base his decision on Bobby over 10 million pounds or so.

I'm not upset - just making my point - like you. 'I rather doubt' Sheikh Mansour will base his decision on this thread!!

Crikey, I hope not !!!

 

[CC1]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

To be fair,they have earnt the psychological edge by continued success.It's up to us to replicate similar,i believe at home,we have gone someway already in achieving that.

Similar to Tyson in his prime,often the opponent was beat before the first bell.

Exactly. Many people seem to expect us to make up 25 years in 3 years. Having said that, winning the FA cup and the League in successive years, with the possibility of finishing second with another FA cup represents 3 amazing years and, in reality, we have closed the gap by about 10 years already!

 

[Blue Heaven]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

To be fair,they have earnt the psychological edge by continued success.It's up to us to replicate similar,i believe,at home,we have gone someway already towards achieving that.

Similar to Tyson in his prime,often the opponent was beat before the first bell.

Iron Mike's days as a champion were over once he got out of prison. From that point on, he stopped moving his head to duck opponents' punches, and the rest is history.

 

[OB1]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

I suspect Bobby has a point it often seems like that to me when I watch The Rags but maybe it's just the blue tint on my glasses. Myabe the Rags are better at keeping ip the imtensity of their performances than us?

Nothing we can do about what goes on in their games though so we just have to rise to tahe challenges we face in our games.

 

[chesterbells]

Mancini agrees with much of Bluemoon, that teams roll over for the rags! He goes a bit OTT saying every team does this (Everton and the new AVB Spurs don't for example) but it holds some truth true, teams play with much less intensity against them than they do against us in general. It's like beating United has lost its novelty, now it's beat the rich kids.

But he should have said this earlier in the season, not much good now.

Now that's the sort of outspoken Mancini I do like to see.
(but yes earlier would've been better)

 

[adrianr]

If we're going to play that way, Kenobi, it would require a significant turnover of our playing squad, I think. It will be very interesting to see what Txiki does in this regard after Bobby is sacked at season's end.

I think that we could produce a very decent and effective 4-3-3 line up with major turnover but to transform the squad in the way that I would like would need quite a few changes.

However we play, I do think that the squad needs some rebalancing anyway. The combination of Barry, Rodwell, Garcia and Milner needs looking at: only Rodwell has any pace and goodness knows if he will ever be fit long enough to prove that he should be a fixture in the team. If Rodwell stays fit, he Yaya and Silva might make a very effective midfield 3, with Rodwell as the guy who plays in front of the centre backs and shuttles about quickly to win the ball back, whilst Yaya plays the role of team hub and Silva flits about and creates. However, we need to bring in someone else who can do the shuttling role and cover the ground more quickly than Garcia, Barry and Milner can.

My thoughts as well. I don't think we're close to having the required personelle to implement a top class Barca 4-3-3. Not only would our current hypothetical first 11 need arguably 3 additions (Equivalents of Busquets, Pedro and Villa - Assuming Silva replaced Iniesta and Yaya replaces Xavi - I'm also making the huge assumption that Aguero can be our Messi), but so many of our backup players aren't suited to the system either. Barry/Garcia/Milner have no place in 4-3-3. Does Rodwell have the intelligence to play the Busquets role? Or the ability to play more attacking? Will he ever be fit long enough for us to find out?

Trying to shoe horn this with our crop of players will I fear end exactly the same was as 3-5-2. They don't know it, they're no good at it, and they'll spend more time asking the manager what to do than playing good football. Of course there are other variants of 4-3-3 we could play with, and will probably have to unless we get everyone required in one window, which would be mightily impressive and expensive. Starting with someone like Gundogan would be a great start in the midfield. Neymar as one of the front 3 ;)

 

[jrb]

If Bobby is pushed, Fergie will have another managerial scalp. That in itself sends out the wrong message.(Fergie ultimately wins again)

Stick with Bobby, get the players in he wants and needs in the Summer, and let him have another go at Winning the title next season.

 

[Blue Heaven]

Oh I think 4-3-3 can work fiine in England; after all, Mourinho used it at Chelsea.

I'd see width mainly coming from the wide men in the front three and the full backs. My particular vision would have the midfiled three being more like Madrid's than Barca's, much of the time. Silva would be Ozil and Yaya and A.N. other would be Khedira/ Alonso (ish). However, on occasion, a more Barca like set-up could see Silva as Ineista, Nasri as Silva and Yaya as, well, Yaya in his his Barca days.

I see Miner as a bit part utility player or at another club.

4-3-3 would be the base formation but you'd have to flex it depending on circumstances.

Not sure about 4-1-3-2: I'm not keen on two central strikers at the moment. 4-1-2-3 or, as Rammy referred to earlier, 4-2-3-1. I was happy with Bobby playing the latter formation and think he has struggled to better it. 4-1-2-3 / 4-2-1-3 might better describe the kind of formations that I have in mind but it all starts to get a bit OTT and 4-3-3 is easier to say and sounds more balanced.

Yes, I was thinking about Mou at Chelski when I posted that, and of course, you're quite correct about his success with it. However, I don't see Yaya as the same kind of fit as someone like Essien, and he turns the ball over more than Lampard, IMHO, by forcing the action with his powerful lumbering runs up the middle of the pitch.

Silva and Nasri would have to be dedicated in tracking back, I would think.

I understand your reservations about two-striker setups and agree that the 4-2-3-1 has been Bobby's most successful formation, by far. Which is why I've never understood why he's always complained about getting more and better strikers when his best formation with this squad features only one striker. I also think that Rodwell is the key player in our midfield, if he can only reach and maintain fitness.

-- Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:17 pm --

I've always been a bit middle of the road on this, been going for that long I well and truly understand change. Nearly called you a wumming **** but I'm a bit mellow tonight. What will be will be, but it's going to be an interesting summer I think.

Well, I guess you might as well have done exactly that... :-) I agree, however, that change, in one form or another, is coming this summer, and it will be fascinating, no matter what form it takes.

Can't disagree, would love to see a couple of good wingers though, it's something that greats on me a bit.

Agree 100% about that, Andy. I strongly felt last summer that our biggest transfer failure wasn't losing out on RVP, but rather not getting a couple of pacy wingers. I still believe that we should have purchased Lavezzi, who went to PSG for peanuts. Getting out-of-favor Alexi Sanchez from Barca would be great, but given the state of war between us and them, I doubt they will sell him to us.

Baconface has won umpteen titles with the simple formula of pacy wingers who can cross accurately into the box, with 2 or 3 others crashing into the box simultaneously to get on the end of those crosses. If we played that way, Dzeko could be properly and fully utilized.

 

[dronefromsector7g]

If Bobby is pushed, Fergie will have another managerial scalp. That in itself sends out the wrong message.(Fergie ultimately wins again)

Stick with Bobby, get the players in he wants and needs in the Summer, and let him have another go at Winning the title next season.

Agreed. Plus Bobby is great with the mind games, they helped last year. Fergie will shuffle off soon enough anyway, hopefully with Bob still here taking us back to the top.

 

[chesterbells]

If Bobby is pushed, Fergie will have another managerial scalp. That in itself sends out the wrong message.(Fergie ultimately wins again)

Stick with Bobby, get the players in he wants and needs in the Summer, and let him have another go at Winning the title next season.

In all the pages on here I've read some reasons for keeping Mancini but that's the first time I've read we should keep him because of how it will make the manager of another club look

 

[jrb]

If Bobby is pushed, Fergie will have another managerial scalp. That in itself sends out the wrong message.(Fergie ultimately wins again)

Stick with Bobby, get the players in he wants and needs in the Summer, and let him have another go at Winning the title next season.

In all the pages on here I've read some reasons for keeping Mancini but that's the first time I've read we should keep him because of how it will make the manager of another club look

No.

I've already stated why we should keep him.

Regardless, that will be the perceived outcome, whether it's true or not.

Once again Fergie triumphs and starts from an elevated position next season.(think about it)

And then. Cue all the negative stories & spin as to why Mancini was sacked, and why Fergie saw him off, etc.

 

[adrianr]

If Bobby is pushed, Fergie will have another managerial scalp. That in itself sends out the wrong message.(Fergie ultimately wins again)

Stick with Bobby, get the players in he wants and needs in the Summer, and let him have another go at Winning the title next season.

In all the pages on here I've read some reasons for keeping Mancini but that's the first time I've read we should keep him because of how it will make the manager of another club look

No.

I've already stated why we should keep him.

Regardless, that will be the perceived outcome, whether it's true or not.

Once again Fergie triumphs, and start form an elevated position next season.

And then. Cue all the negative stories & spin as to why Mancini was sacked, and why Fergie saw him off.

The press will create the narrative regardless of the reality. If you need to get rid of a manager (not saying we do), you can't keep him because you're worried it will make Baconchops look good.

 

[chesterbells]

In all the pages on here I've read some reasons for keeping Mancini but that's the first time I've read we should keep him because of how it will make the manager of another club look

No.

I've already stated why we should keep him.

Regardless, that will be the perceived outcome, whether it's true or not.

Once again Fergie triumphs, and start form an elevated position next season.

And then. Cue all the negative stories & spin as to why Mancini was sacked, and why Fergie saw him off.

The press will create the narrative regardless of the reality. If you need to get rid of a manager (not saying we do), you can't keep him because you're worried it will make Baconchops look good.

You've just beaten me to it here, but 'this'.
There's already a big thread on here today about the negative press we get anyway. The man utd manager, who he is, how long he's been there..,so what?
Let the press do their worst.
An unbelievable reason for keeping Mancini to my way of thinking, but each to their own ....

 

[jrb]

In all the pages on here I've read some reasons for keeping Mancini but that's the first time I've read we should keep him because of how it will make the manager of another club look

No.

I've already stated why we should keep him.

Regardless, that will be the perceived outcome, whether it's true or not.

Once again Fergie triumphs, and start form an elevated position next season.

And then. Cue all the negative stories & spin as to why Mancini was sacked, and why Fergie saw him off.

The press will create the narrative regardless of the reality. If you need to get rid of a manager (not saying we do), you can't keep him because you're worried it will make Baconchops look good.

I'm not worried. Mancini won't be sacked.

However, if he was, the fallout across the board will be enormous. The whole setup would have to start again. A new manager would bring in his own staff and new tactics, etc. If that happened would City mount a serious title challenge next season, compared to a stable United, with a couple of good additions?