Mancini's biggest fault. (IMO)

[2sheikhs]

Boateng:CB for club,RB for country.Voted best defender in Bundesliga for performances at CB.
Watch some of Milners games just before he left Villa.
Yaya got his reputation and value as a DM and is simply too muscular and large to run around like a tit in a trance as a box to box MF, thats why he looks shagged out as the game wears on.
If Kaka wasn't interested in coming to City,there wouldn't even have been the beginnings of negotiations.The stumbling block was image rights and wages,not because we're "little City".
Eto'o sent City or Hughes or both,text messages begging for negotiations to resume.Obviously wages would have played a big part as always,but Robben and Ribery would have both signed.

Dont forget that Milner was PFA young player of the year whilst at Villa for his performances as a box to box central midfielder.

Exactly,thats his forte.He has energy and enthusiasm to burn which suits that position.To be a good wide man you need either pace like Petrov had or trickery,like Johnsons got.

 

[Mancio]

You seem very quick to be harsh of MCFC, yet are understanding of other teams around us, even in the luck department.
Take a breath and have a break

Very quick to be harsh of MCFC, aww didums are my views hurting it's fweelings? Seriously though, I won't be harsh of Tottenham or Liverpool because I believe we have better players than them but they utilise their's better (or at least Liverpool have recently, Tottenham have done all season). Of course I'm harsh on Man City, they're my team and I see a group of players who could do so much better with the right players playing in the right positions. It's to do with tactics I don't believe in. The AM role has been a problem for most of the season and except in a few games against the poorer opposition Yaya has failed to impress there. Why? Because his skill set doesn't fit that position. It's simple to see.

Here's some questions for those who are here arguing against my original points:

Is Yaya Toure the same class AM/No10 as the rest of the top 6's players in that role? (Gerrard, Lampard, Fabregas, Rooney, Modric)

When you watch us play do we look like we're playing as well as can be expected for this group of players?

In all the games this year when we've played another top 5 side (Manure, Arse, Chelski, Spuds) how many of those games have we looked as good as the opposition over the course of the 90 minutes (on balance)?

My answers would be "No", "No", and "maybe away at The Swamp"

I don't think that's good enough. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but I'm not expecting miracles here, just to look like a team with a plan where all the players are the best ones available for those positions.

i fail to understand a thing...... if , in you opinion , yaya is City's n°10 .. what is silva intended to be ?<br /><br />-- Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 pm --<br /><br />

Dont forget that Milner was PFA young player of the year whilst at Villa for his performances as a box to box central midfielder.

Exactly,thats his forte.He has energy and enthusiasm to burn which suits that position.To be a good wide man you need either pace like Petrov had or trickery,like Johnsons got.

so you can see in milner the skills (vision , pass , dribbling) of a trequartista ? really ?

 

[Fuzzmaster101]

Very quick to be harsh of MCFC, aww didums are my views hurting it's fweelings? Seriously though, I won't be harsh of Tottenham or Liverpool because I believe we have better players than them but they utilise their's better (or at least Liverpool have recently, Tottenham have done all season). Of course I'm harsh on Man City, they're my team and I see a group of players who could do so much better with the right players playing in the right positions. It's to do with tactics I don't believe in. The AM role has been a problem for most of the season and except in a few games against the poorer opposition Yaya has failed to impress there. Why? Because his skill set doesn't fit that position. It's simple to see.

Here's some questions for those who are here arguing against my original points:

Is Yaya Toure the same class AM/No10 as the rest of the top 6's players in that role? (Gerrard, Lampard, Fabregas, Rooney, Modric)

When you watch us play do we look like we're playing as well as can be expected for this group of players?

In all the games this year when we've played another top 5 side (Manure, Arse, Chelski, Spuds) how many of those games have we looked as good as the opposition over the course of the 90 minutes (on balance)?

My answers would be "No", "No", and "maybe away at The Swamp"

I don't think that's good enough. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but I'm not expecting miracles here, just to look like a team with a plan where all the players are the best ones available for those positions.

i fail to understand a thing...... if , in you opinion , yaya is City's n°10 .. what is silva intended to be ?

Jesus christ, that's my whole point! Why isn't Silva playing the role that Yaya is playing? Silva is being played out wide and cutting in to play off Tevez, he should be a focal point centrally as Fabregas is at Arsenal (The No 10 role). You fail to understand a lot on here Mancio. Your biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity.

 

[Mancio]

i fail to understand a thing...... if , in you opinion , yaya is City's n°10 .. what is silva intended to be ?

Jesus christ, that's my whole point! Why isn't Silva playing the role that Yaya is playing? Silva is being played out wide and cutting in to play off Tevez, he should be a focal point centrally as Fabregas is at Arsenal (The No 10 role). You fail to understand a lot on here Mancio. Your biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity.

did you never see Inter ? sneijder do the same things silva do , if they always start from a central position they are easily man-marked and go lost in the game . that what trequartistas have to do. a lot different from what the fabregas or the pirlo or the modric do , coz they play a different role. so different as different are the roles of a xavi from a iniesta.

Re my " biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity" i want just say a thing , are you sure your "biased and blinkered critic of mancini" is so clever ?

 

[2sheikhs]

Very quick to be harsh of MCFC, aww didums are my views hurting it's fweelings? Seriously though, I won't be harsh of Tottenham or Liverpool because I believe we have better players than them but they utilise their's better (or at least Liverpool have recently, Tottenham have done all season). Of course I'm harsh on Man City, they're my team and I see a group of players who could do so much better with the right players playing in the right positions. It's to do with tactics I don't believe in. The AM role has been a problem for most of the season and except in a few games against the poorer opposition Yaya has failed to impress there. Why? Because his skill set doesn't fit that position. It's simple to see.

Here's some questions for those who are here arguing against my original points:

Is Yaya Toure the same class AM/No10 as the rest of the top 6's players in that role? (Gerrard, Lampard, Fabregas, Rooney, Modric)

When you watch us play do we look like we're playing as well as can be expected for this group of players?

In all the games this year when we've played another top 5 side (Manure, Arse, Chelski, Spuds) how many of those games have we looked as good as the opposition over the course of the 90 minutes (on balance)?

My answers would be "No", "No", and "maybe away at The Swamp"

I don't think that's good enough. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but I'm not expecting miracles here, just to look like a team with a plan where all the players are the best ones available for those positions.

i fail to understand a thing...... if , in you opinion , yaya is City's n°10 .. what is silva intended to be ?

-- Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 pm --

Exactly,thats his forte.He has energy and enthusiasm to burn which suits that position.To be a good wide man you need either pace like Petrov had or trickery,like Johnsons got.

so you can see in milner the skills (vision , pass , dribbling) of a trequartista ? really ?

I'll say it again,watch Milner in his last season at Villa. Just because he doesn't have the same kind of skills as Modric or Silva doesn't mean he isn't effective in the middle.Tevez and Drogba have different qualities but they're still strikers.

 

[Dax777]

I'm not here to slag off the current manager, or any of the players. I'd just like to air something that's bugging me.

In my opinion Mancini's biggest fault is that he believes Yaya Toure is a premiership quality attacking midfielder. I don't doubt Yaya's qualities and one game out of maybe 6 or 7 he has an excellent game there (usually against poor opposition). But for me he's just not good enough in this roll.

Look at premiership teams who play with either an AM or a number 10 dropping off into midfield to link up play. Tottenham (Modric, Van Der Vaart) Chelsea (Lampard), Arsenal (Fabregas), Liverpool (Gerrard), Ushited (Rooney). I just don't think Yaya is as good as any of these players in this roll. For me our two more defense-minded Mids should be two from Barry, De Jong, Yaya, Vieira, Milner, Zab. Then the AM position should be given to either Silva or Tevez (The Rooney roll if playing alongside Balo or Dzeko) or at a pinch Milner.

Against Chelsea we had a big man up front so Silva would have been ideal as the AM (Or number 10) with Milner and AJ on the wings to play balls into the box. This just never happened. I can barely remember Dzeko having a chance (except the one he stuffed up when Yaya dummied a touch). It seemed that 50% of the breaks we got (and there weren't many) broke down due to a poor ball by Yaya or a lack of vision by him.

Like I said I don't want to slag the player off, I think he has many fine qualities, just not as the lynchpin of our midfield. For me the AM is the most important roll in a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1.

Thoughts?

I was quite annoyed when I read this. Coz like a lot of what I read on Bluemoon, it is nothing but perception reinforced by pre-existing belief. In short, BIAS!!!

I'll ignore the first 2 paragraph which is the OP's opinion and he is free to have one about Mancini. But I'll start with the 3rd Paragraph instead. First off, Yaya is a premiership quality footballer. Of that there is no question. And he needs not be better than any of the others mentioned. Even though this season he has been better than Lampard, who by the way is on the list above.

As for the 4th Paragraph which I have in bold (as it is the only one that contains some semblance of a summary of facts), it is absolutely hogwash. The same kinda blame it on Barry crap that often passes here for analysis. I.e. when you think something is wrong, pick a player you don't like and claim it his fault by generalizing about a particular instance.

But if you want the facts, here it is. Dzeko did not get a lot of chances mainly because he often lost the ball when he got it. He lost 13 passes after receiving the ball. Most of those passes from Yaya and Silva. Second, Dzeko did not get enough chances coz most of Kolarov's crosses were poor. Kolarov put in 9 crosses of which only 2 found targets. One to Micah and the other to Dzeko. The third most important reason why Dzeko did not get many chances, is because James Milner failed to put any crosses into the box. He was only able to complete 1 cross. And the cross was unsuccessful. These 3 factors, Dzeko losing possession a lot (more than anyone else), Kolarov's poor delivery, and Milner's (non-delivery) consituted about 80% of the dearth of scoring chances to Dzeko. Which makes one wonder, how does the OP arrive at Yaya Toure as his culprit :?

Oh, by the way, in plotting Yaya;s graph, the strategy was quite clear, clearer than with any other player. Get the ball out to the wings. About 65% of Yaya's passes were to Kolarov and Milner (i.e. the guys who were supposed to get Dzeko the ball.) And contrary to the claims of the OP, Yaya Lost the ball 7 times against Chelsea, compared to 15 by Kolarov, 13 by Dzeko, 12 by Milner, 10 by Richard, and 9 by Silva. He was on Par with Barry and Lescott who also both lost it 7 times. The only 2 players with safer completions were Kompany with 4 and De Jong with 1.

Yet somehow the OP amd many others who agree with him have concluded, it was Yaya who's continuous losing of the ball all game, made it impossible for Dzeko to get a chance.

Before folks proffer an opinion, can they just try to review the facts for a change- You know, check chalkboards, go to the OS and re-watch the highlights just to refresh your recollection.

I mean, it would be really nice if we have a little less of the bias that stinks up this place :( Well, I guess I should add, In my humble opinion.

 

[Damocles]

did you never see Inter ? sneijder do the same things silva do , if they always start from a central position they are easily man-marked and go lost in the game .

Re my " biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity" i want just say a thing , are you sure your "biased and blinkered critic of mancini" is so clever ?

This.

Attacking midfielders don't really exist any more with the prevalence of the Makelele stoppers. However, people do still play there. Whether it is Rooney/VDV/Tevez who drops back from the top, Yaya/Gerrard/Lampard who get there from a bit deeper, or Silva and the rest who come from in wide.

It's the position that everybody wants to play in, but nobody can declare it solely theirs.

This is a good thing. With 3 or 4 players all vying to get in the most dangerous position on a pitch, it should give us some fluidity up top and some unpredictability.

We aren't quite there as an attacking team, as our off the ball movement is pretty shoddy due to our preoccupation with sorting out the defence ('build from the back'), but these things take a bit of time to develop as players need to be able to see the runs of their teammates before they happen.

It'll come.

 

[Fuzzmaster101]

Jesus christ, that's my whole point! Why isn't Silva playing the role that Yaya is playing? Silva is being played out wide and cutting in to play off Tevez, he should be a focal point centrally as Fabregas is at Arsenal (The No 10 role). You fail to understand a lot on here Mancio. Your biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity.

did you never see Inter ? sneijder do the same things silva do , if they always start from a central position they are easily man-marked and go lost in the game .

Re my " biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity" i want just say a thing , are you sure your "biased and blinkered critic of mancini" is so clever ?

Show me where I have had a biased and blinkered view against Mancini? I don't agree with his tactics. That's it. I don't dislike the guy. In fact I like him a lot from what I've seen of him. However when someone doesn't agree with his style of play or his tactics it doesn't mean they have an agenda against him, it means they have a problem with his ideas. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

 

[Mancio]

i fail to understand a thing...... if , in you opinion , yaya is City's n°10 .. what is silva intended to be ?

-- Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 pm --



so you can see in milner the skills (vision , pass , dribbling) of a trequartista ? really ?

I'll say it again,watch Milner in his last season at Villa. Just because he doesn't have the same kind of skills as Modric or Silva doesn't mean he isn't effective in the middle.Tevez and Drogba have different qualities but they're still strikers.

mate i won't say milner isnt effective as CM , i just say he cant be a trequartista (what you call an "attacking midfielder")

 

[Fuzzmaster101]

did you never see Inter ? sneijder do the same things silva do , if they always start from a central position they are easily man-marked and go lost in the game .

Re my " biased and blinkered defence of Mancini is beyond stupidity" i want just say a thing , are you sure your "biased and blinkered critic of mancini" is so clever ?

This.

Attacking midfielders don't really exist any more with the prevalence of the Makelele stoppers. However, people do still play there. Whether it is Rooney/VDV/Tevez who drops back from the top, Yaya/Gerrard/Lampard who get there from a bit deeper, or Silva and the rest who come from in wide.

It's the position that everybody wants to play in, but nobody can declare it solely theirs.

This is a good thing. With 3 or 4 players all vying to get in the most dangerous position on a pitch, it should give us some fluidity up top and some unpredictability.

We aren't quite there as an attacking team, as our off the ball movement is pretty shoddy due to our preoccupation with sorting out the defence ('build from the back'), but these things take a bit of time to develop as players need to be able to see the runs of their teammates before they happen.

It'll come.

I agree in part, however you still need your strongest player in that central position to be in that central position for the most part. That's why Fabregas plays there for Arsenal even though Nasri and Walcott sometimes break into that area too. Modric plays there for the most part but Lennon, Bale, Van Der Vart all drop in there to mix it up. We should have our best player in that role playing there as a start point. That player for me is either Silva or Tevez, not Yaya. Tevez to drop off from attack where he's partnering either Dzeko or Balo or Silva to play there with Tevez as the central striker. We then have Milner, AJ, SWP, Kolarov (sometimes), Balo to switch in and mix it up.