Marvin said:Just a small point, he was a marked man in Italy too. That's down to racism which a lot of people aren't prepared to admit tootolmie's hairdoo said:Chris in London said:I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.
With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...
;-)
The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.
Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.
Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.
Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.
Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.
He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.
The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.
They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.
Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.
Mario has to beat his critics.
tolmie's hairdoo said:Chris in London said:Didsbury Dave said:That has always been the case of course...the madness comes as part of the package. But the price is getting higher, not lower, and therein lies the rub. And Tolm makes an extrememly valid point...his reputation now has upped that price even further.
I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.
With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...
;-)
The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.
Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.
Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.
Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.
Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.
He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.
The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.
They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.
Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.
Chris in London said:tolmie's hairdoo said:Chris in London said:I agree entirely that it's a valid debate. I agree entirely Mario is a marked man I just disagree with the conclusion reached by some that we are better off getting rid.
With 4 fit and functining strikers, we would rotate them anyway. The problem is worse right now because of Tevez. But once we are up to full strength, we can look on Mario's inevitable suspensions as part of the rotation process...
;-)
The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.
Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.
Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.
Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.
Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.
He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.
The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.
They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.
Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.
Agree entirely with that. Also, acknowledge that your question is a hard one that needs asking (though (a) your views perhaps are a little too clear in the OP for it to be truly a devil's advocate thread, and (b) the devil's actual advocate is busy this week in Southwark Crown Court.)
You may be right that the Parker incident will mean ref.s are more likely to send him off first and ask questions later. You may be right, we both hope you aren't, that his reputation will precede him and really hurt us in a very big game.
First, I think this can be managed. At least in part. My guess is that Mancini had a shrewd idea what Stoke would do to Mario during the Final and warned him specifically beforehand that under no circumstances, whatever the provocation, could he afford to lose his cool. Wouldn't be surprised if something very similar happened before the semi. Well, it worked. Twice. What we now need Mario to understand is that we have 13 FA cup finals left between now and the end of the season (assuming he isn't available for the next few games.)
Second, he really does have game changing ability which, for all the baggage that comes with it, few individuals possess.
Third, when you have a player as talented as Mario, as loved by the fans as Mario, we go the extra mile to keep him: if he wasn't as good, if he hadn't showed already he could rise to the big occasion (Wembley being our biggest occasion in 30 years) or if we didn't love him as much as we do, maybe I would feel differently.
But Mario is special. We have taken to him, we have invested - emotionally and financially - in him, I think we make a huge mistake by baling out now.
Excellent post that.jay_mcfc said:Haven't read the whole thread, in fact I've only read the first and last pages but my two penneth;
1- His age. Whatever anyone says he can and will learn to deal with things. Imo, despite Sunday, this season has already been a huge improvement. He was sent off wrongly against Liverpool and may be suspended wrongly here too. I understand this is part of the problem but he has been only partly to blame for the games he has and will miss. If he improves as much next year as he has next he'll be well on the way to behaving more like a normal player.
2- His improvement on the field and his match winning ability. He has turned into a real important player for us to the point that when he doesn't start we are considered to be under strength. That's for a guy who is 21! I understand again that part of the problem is that he will miss too many games if always suspended but he is worth the risk, for now, based on what he has done on the pitch this season.
3- Mancini. The best thing about this is that Mancini as a player was as close to Balotelli as anyone has been over the past couple of decades. At the moment Mancini feels like the refs and the FA are against City and especially Balotelli but what would be best for everyone is if Mancini forgets all that and concentrates on looking after Mario. He more than anyone needs to get into the mind of the man because if he can't, no-one will. I would give it another season at least to see if Mancini can handle him even better than he already has.
4- The FA and refs. They cannot be allowed to dictate who we sign and sell. The comments by Poll absolutely disgusted me and confirmed all my fears about referee's. The FA are completely and utterly lacking in any kind of continuity and fairness. We should be creating a siege mentality against them and let them not that, whilst Balotelli is far from innocent, we will not allow there to be one rule for one and one for another. It is unacceptable that a club like ours would consider selling one of their best players because he isn't treated fairly. Would Fergie have sold Cantona?
tolmie's hairdoo said:Marvin said:Just a small point, he was a marked man in Italy too. That's down to racism which a lot of people aren't prepared to admit tootolmie's hairdoo said:The thread was playing Devils' Advocate, nothing more.
Personally, I love Mario to bits, I don't see or speak to a blue who doesn't.
Now taking that out of the equation, forget the press aspect, also.
Mario IS a marked man and will continue to be so until he leaves English football.
Call it corrupt, calling agenda, whatever you want.
He is a convenient scapegoat for opposition fans when we play away from home, a leverage every time he attempts a physical challenge.
The Parker incident will ramp this up x10. Mario can act like a saint, but in the eyes of officials, they will continually have the instinct to act first, ask questions later.
They are covered either way by the rules and retrospective action.
Doesn't help us if we are down to ten men at Old Trafford and the ref decides two days later he got it wrong.
Mario has to beat his critics.
But I do actually believe Mario is also suffering a form of racism over here, unfortunately.
He might not be having bananas thrown at him or monkey chanting from the stands, but there is a 'Johnny Foreigner' mentality which also puts him at a major disadvantage.
Coupled with his own personality and shortcomings, he has a ready-made target on his back.
Our owners have also experienced this prejudice.
It's not about beating his critics, racists, it's about beating the system.
And very few people do that.
The cookie monster said:Tolmie any idea how our owners see all the negative press surrounding our club or their club?