Martin Samuel today in the mail.

[Sigh]

Next time throw paper planes, or bring in a batch of stale gregs eclairs, or a gross of rubber johnnys and lob them. Didn't we get in some bother for paper planes some time back? Maybe I'm thinking of something else, or Horlockian aggressive walking, or something or something.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Rooney does it every time. He ran past the Utd fans and slid infront of the City fans in 111. You could see people charging down the steps to the front of the stand after he did that.

It's irresponsible. He did it after his first goal, he did it in the FA Cup last year, and he Welbeck did it then also.

Phil Jones ran along the Colin Bell Stand with his finger to his lips, pointing to the badge on his shirt.

Hernandez also did similar at Chelsea running towards Chelsea fans in the corner. A crush ensued and a steward was injured.

I agree that you shouldn't throw coins, and I wouldn't do it myself. But there has to be some responsibility on the players not to deliberately goad other fans. Rooney should and could have celebrated infront of Utd fans, but he went out of his way, running past Utd section to slide in front of 111.

It's been said that when fans go to a match they should expect that the opposition may score a goal and celebrate it.

Perhaps players should expect objects to be thrown if they deliberately wind them up.

Right, so fans can wind players up for 90 minutes and they should just accept it but when a player returns the favour they should expect objects thrown at their heads?

Brilliant logic.

 

[jamielowndes]

Let's have this right.

I had no idea that Rooney had celebrated in front of the City fans. If I'm honest I couldn't care less.

But when Rooney was running over to take that corner I said to my mate "You watch, he'll get hit by a missile here". Then I saw him pointing at the floor and said "See?"

Crowds quoting "incitement" are pathetic buck-passers. Players get dogs abuse from crowds. If they want to give a bit back it doesn't bother me. It's exactly the same as the Adebayor situation. And if City insist on putting their most vociferous fans right by the corner flag this sort of thing will happen from time to time.

I have to agree with this. The "players provoking the fans" shit doesnt fly, especially when you consider the shit fans give them. For any team.

 

[cheddar404]

Rooney does it every time. He ran past the Utd fans and slid infront of the City fans in 111. You could see people charging down the steps to the front of the stand after he did that.

It's irresponsible. He did it after his first goal, he did it in the FA Cup last year, and he Welbeck did it then also.

Phil Jones ran along the Colin Bell Stand with his finger to his lips, pointing to the badge on his shirt.

Hernandez also did similar at Chelsea running towards Chelsea fans in the corner. A crush ensued and a steward was injured.

I agree that you shouldn't throw coins, and I wouldn't do it myself. But there has to be some responsibility on the players not to deliberately goad other fans. Rooney should and could have celebrated infront of Utd fans, but he went out of his way, running past Utd section to slide in front of 111.

It's been said that when fans go to a match they should expect that the opposition may score a goal and celebrate it.

Perhaps players should expect objects to be thrown if they deliberately wind them up.

Right, so fans can wind players up for 90 minutes and they should just accept it but when a player returns the favour they should expect objects thrown at their heads?

Brilliant logic.

It's not quite the same situation is it though? Footballers are paid vast sums of money and their behaviour whether you like it or not has the power to create reactions/trouble etc within football stadia as 40k+ people are watching. I would suggest that their duties extend further than just winning football matches. It's an extreme example but what if Rooney lifted his shirt to display a t shirt with "96, not enough" next time they play Liverpool? They give him loads of personal abuse...why not? He should be able to give some back if this is what people are saying. Surely Liverpool fans should be well behaved enough not to react.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Rooney does it every time. He ran past the Utd fans and slid infront of the City fans in 111. You could see people charging down the steps to the front of the stand after he did that.

It's irresponsible. He did it after his first goal, he did it in the FA Cup last year, and he Welbeck did it then also.

Phil Jones ran along the Colin Bell Stand with his finger to his lips, pointing to the badge on his shirt.

Hernandez also did similar at Chelsea running towards Chelsea fans in the corner. A crush ensued and a steward was injured.

I agree that you shouldn't throw coins, and I wouldn't do it myself. But there has to be some responsibility on the players not to deliberately goad other fans. Rooney should and could have celebrated infront of Utd fans, but he went out of his way, running past Utd section to slide in front of 111.

It's been said that when fans go to a match they should expect that the opposition may score a goal and celebrate it.

Perhaps players should expect objects to be thrown if they deliberately wind them up.

Right, so fans can wind players up for 90 minutes and they should just accept it but when a player returns the favour they should expect objects thrown at their heads?

Brilliant logic.

It's not quite the same situation is it though? Footballers are paid vast sums of money and their behaviour whether you like it or not has the power to create reactions/trouble etc within football stadia as 40k+ people are watching. I would suggest that their duties extend further than just winning football matches. It's an extreme example but what if Rooney lifted his shirt to display a t shirt with "96, not enough" next time they play Liverpool? They give him loads of personal abuse...why not? He should be able to give some back if this is what people are saying. Surely Liverpool fans should be well behaved enough not to react.

Fucking hell, mate. If Rooney celebrated in such a manner as displaying THAT t-shirt, he'd deserve whatever reactions fans deemed neccessary. This is fuck all like that though.

He'd been on the receiving end of verbal abuse for 90 minutes, as per every Derby, and unsurprisingly felt the need to give a little bit back by celebrating a last minute winner by sliding on his knees in front for the same fans that had barracked him all game. That's all.

Like I said earlier, if he'd gestured the wanker sign, stuck up the v's or did a Cantona, then he deserves punishing. But basically sticking one on the same fans who've riled him all game just by knee sliding infront of you does, in no way, deserve objecs to be thrown in their direction.

 

[waspish]

Where is the footage on sky of Rooney rio and Jones antagonising our fans?

I'd guarantee if it was the other way round the media would be highlighting it

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I have to agree with Martin Samuel's main argument - fans are not provoked into throwing coins. Whar Samuel does not mention is that coin throwing at players is a frequent occurence at PL matches, but one which is passed over in silence until it is impossible to ignore, as on Sunday. Unfortunately we have to admit and accept that we have, in common with every other club - EVERY other club, Sir Alex - a minority of fans whose only answer to frustration is violence of one form or another. They are not goaded, they choose to act like that, whatever the so-called provocation. We condemned Arsenal fans out of hand, quite rightly, when they put a steward in hospital when they reacted to Adebayor's "provocation". The trouble with accepting the argument of provocation is that you allow those "provoked" to decide what action they can be provoked into - throwing coins? putting stewards in hospital? mass murder and lynchings?

That is not to say that playrs can behave as they see fit or even in the heat of the moment. Throwing missiles back at the crowd is clearly illegal and the FA has disciplined players for this. The FA could make no mention of provocation but simply forbid celebrations which are unsporting and punish offenders. Since the FA always thinks Rooney behaves with impeccable sportsmanship, he would get away every time, as now, but others wouldn't.

 

[Scareye]

I am not justifying the actions of people throwing coins or the lad who went on the pitch, however if you deliberately goad people in a highly emotional state you will get a reaction.

If I'm ever in a pub watching City and there are opposition fans in there and we score, I think I will slide towards them on my knees, I'm sure they will all pat me on the back and buy me a pint!!!

 

[cheddar404]

Right, so fans can wind players up for 90 minutes and they should just accept it but when a player returns the favour they should expect objects thrown at their heads?

Brilliant logic.

It's not quite the same situation is it though? Footballers are paid vast sums of money and their behaviour whether you like it or not has the power to create reactions/trouble etc within football stadia as 40k+ people are watching. I would suggest that their duties extend further than just winning football matches. It's an extreme example but what if Rooney lifted his shirt to display a t shirt with "96, not enough" next time they play Liverpool? They give him loads of personal abuse...why not? He should be able to give some back if this is what people are saying. Surely Liverpool fans should be well behaved enough not to react.

Fucking hell, mate. If Rooney celebrated in such a manner as displaying THAT t-shirt, he'd deserve whatever reactions fans deemed neccessary. This is fuck all like that though.

He'd been on the receiving end of verbal abuse for 90 minutes, as per every Derby, and unsurprisingly felt the need to give a little bit back by celebrating a last minute winner by sliding on his knees in front for the same fans that had barracked him all game. That's all.

Like I said earlier, if he'd gestured the wanker sign, stuck up the v's or did a Cantona, then he deserves punishing. But basically sticking one on the same fans who've riled him all game just by knee sliding infront of you does, in no way, deserve objecs to be thrown in their direction.

Like I say, it's an extreme example to make the point of the massive influence that players have over crowd disorder. Does Rooney deserve to have stuff thrown at him for doing running towards City fans and sliding on the floor? Of course not but deliberately going out of your way to celebrate in front of opposing fans in a match like that is irresponsible. He knows it too even though he's clearly as thick as pig shit; that's why he does it.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

It's not quite the same situation is it though? Footballers are paid vast sums of money and their behaviour whether you like it or not has the power to create reactions/trouble etc within football stadia as 40k+ people are watching. I would suggest that their duties extend further than just winning football matches. It's an extreme example but what if Rooney lifted his shirt to display a t shirt with "96, not enough" next time they play Liverpool? They give him loads of personal abuse...why not? He should be able to give some back if this is what people are saying. Surely Liverpool fans should be well behaved enough not to react.

Fucking hell, mate. If Rooney celebrated in such a manner as displaying THAT t-shirt, he'd deserve whatever reactions fans deemed neccessary. This is fuck all like that though.

He'd been on the receiving end of verbal abuse for 90 minutes, as per every Derby, and unsurprisingly felt the need to give a little bit back by celebrating a last minute winner by sliding on his knees in front for the same fans that had barracked him all game. That's all.

Like I said earlier, if he'd gestured the wanker sign, stuck up the v's or did a Cantona, then he deserves punishing. But basically sticking one on the same fans who've riled him all game just by knee sliding infront of you does, in no way, deserve objecs to be thrown in their direction.

Like I say, it's an extreme example to make the point of the massive influence that players have over crowd disorder. Does Rooney deserve to have stuff thrown at him for doing running towards City fans and sliding on the floor? Of course not but deliberately going out of your way to celebrate in front of opposing fans in a match like that is irresponsible. He knows it too even though he's clearly as thick as pig shit; that's why he does it.

If he's reacting to being given a tirade of abuse for 90mins then I don't blame him for doing so.

Obviously this is not on the same scale, but a few years ago in Sunday League, a load of opposition were calling me a fat **** all game (plump may have been more apt to be honest) and I managed to score late on to get the win. What did I do? I ran past the lot of them and said, in a commentary like voice, "and what a winner from the fat ****!!!".

Why did I do it? I guess I felt compelled to respond in some way. After all, it's only banter. Had I celebrated by running up to one of them and did a Cantona-esque kick, I'd have expected a kicking, in the same way had Rooney dont more than just a knee slide I'd have expected more than a few words from the crowd.

Whether it's just me, I don't know, but the way I see it, if I'm prepared to insult an opposing player for 90mins, it shouldn't surprise me to see said player react should he be given the reason to do so. The moment said player takes it to an extreme level like Cantona did is when it's gone too far, in the same way when a fan throws a missile at a player, that's gone too far, too.