I would not buy him for reasons stated in my earlier posts and none of the reasons are because think he is shit because I dont think he is.So from your understanding of that, you'd say we'd buy Jorginho sit him at the base (instead of Fernandinho) and have De Bruyne/Silva mopping up defensive duties (like Gattuso/Ambrosini for Pirlo); or employ Jorginho in a 2 with Fernandinho, with Fern acting as the defensive shield?
Your wrong mate. Read my earlier posts.I think you are too entrenched with the idea of DM being a midfielder that defends. Your idea of DM is more of a role, but instead when people refer to DM it’s more towards where he is positioned than the role, which is behind De Bruyne and Silva. His role could be whatever, but his position is DM.
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!In some aspects, Kovacic would be a better fit than Jorginho, he's more tenacious and better at dribbling which would be better against high pressing sides. I don't think he's that worse in terms of passing. But we don't need a great passer as we have KDB, Silva, Gundogan who can essentially playmake.
In some aspects, Kovacic would be a better fit than Jorginho, he's more tenacious and better at dribbling which would be better against high pressing sides.
Nobody is arguing about Jorginho’s lack of speed or mobility. That is irrelevant to the fact that he will play as the DM in our team.Your wrong mate. Read my earlier posts.
It his pace and mobility which concern me.
If he looked as thgough he could match the pace and mobility of say debruyne and silva, I would have him in there all day.
His position may be that of a dm but his main role and strengths is that of playmaker who situated deep in order to assist with recycling/retaining possession, beating a high line press and instigating quick attacking transitions from deep.
Sorry but that's wrong. The way you beat high pressing sides is by moving the ball quickly with people who can make quick, accurate, one touch passes while receiving the ball under pressure. We've known that since Pep's Barcelona. That's why Jorginho beats the press.
Sorry but that's just not right. The way you beat high pressing sides is by moving the ball quickly with people who can make quick, accurate, one touch passes while receiving the ball under pressure. We've known that since Pep's Barcelona. That's why Jorginho beats the press constantly.
Dribbling can break the press if you get past the first couple of defenders, but it's much more risky, because you can and will get caught on the ball.
That's one way to beat a press. But If you have someone who's as supremely good at dribbling in close spaces then it's an alternate route to doing it.
As I said above, that's an inferior way of doing it because it's only a matter of time before you get caught with the ball. Being able to beat 1 man with dribbling or footwork is great, because it immediately fucks up the marking further up the pitch by forcing another defender to come to you, but when you face teams like Liverpool who will commit at least 2 men to the man on the ball, passing is the only way - either through, or over the top of the press.
Neither did Mendy and Delph. But thatst all water under the bridge now.Our transfer policy raises too many questions. Jorginho and Kovacic don’t even play the same midfield roles, so how the fuck can one be an alternative to the other? We need a pivot, refuse to pay a little bit more for the best one available and then instead move onto a more expensive player that doesn’t play as a pivot. Fucked up strategy this.
Neither did Mendy and Delph. But thatst all water under the bridge now.
Not to mention, Kova actually does play the 6 often. So this won't be as far a cry as you are making it at all.
Oh dear god another person who has seen a Tifo football video and played football manager and thinks they know everything.
If you actually understood the video you've just posted you'd realise there's no way Jorginho either is or would be a Pirlo style regista in our team, and it's making a distinction where one doesn't exist. Fernandinho does everything a "regista" does, but he's also the defensive midfielder. So does Jorginho. So does Busquets.
These are defensive midfielders. Yes they direct and control the game, and create from deep, but they do it as defensive midfielders or holding midfielders, or pivots, whatever you want to call them.
It appears that it’s an alternate route that our manager very much doesn’t prefer.That's one way to beat a press. But If you have someone who's as supremely good at dribbling in close spaces then it's an alternate route to doing it.
When your argument is reduced to disparaging the person your in discussion with your position is in trouble.
Hence I wont go there and will try to keep it polite.
You have actually reiterated quite a lot of what I have actually said.
However, some of what your saying does not make sense at all.
On one hand youve stated that I dont understand the video and that I dont realize that "there's no way Jorginho either is or would be a Pirlo style regista in our team, and it's making a distinction where one doesn't exist".
Yet it is you not me who is confusingly making distinctions with reference to a Pirlo style regista. I have not mentioned Pirlo once to you, I think.
Further I don't understand what your on about a regista is a regista.
There aint no Joey Barton style regista, Jan Mobly style regista or Jamie Pollock style regista
Just simply a regista. Which is a deep lying playmaker
I have previously clarified my awareness of how Fern carries out the regista role so that does not restating here.
However, where you are wrong is that whilst Fern does do everything a regista does he does not do it all well, particularly with focus upon the deep lying play making and to an extent press resistant responsibilities of the role.
Hence the reason why the club feel they need to prioritize a deep lying playmaker in that role.
Where I differ from you is that I try not to take cheap shots or manipulate information to suit my argument when I feel my position is at best flaky.
Instead I would leave this question to rest of the thread based upon the argument you have advanced.
The question is whether it is felt Jorghinio with his lack of pace, aggression and mobility is able to match the defensive cover Fern provides when he is sitting in that Regista role for City.
He may well be able to time will tell but on the basis of what I have observed, I think he would struggle to which may impact on both the fluidity and solidity of our style of play.
I cant think of one prem team who has a midfielder with his lack of pace and mobility playing at the base of their midfield.Nobody is arguing about Jorginho’s lack of speed or mobility. That is irrelevant to the fact that he will play as the DM in our team.
Remember, Pep’s style of play will never succeed in England. The Premier League requires pace, power, and direct play. Any style based on possession tactics won’t work on cold, wet nights etc.So your entire argument essentially boils down to "Guardiola spent 6 months pursuing someone who couldn't hack it in England", while making distinctions about deep lying playmakers vs. Registas vs defensive midfielders which don't exist.
Its just that on this one Im very sceptical about what his impact may be.So your entire argument essentially boils down to "Guardiola spent 6 months pursuing someone who couldn't hack it in England"
In fairness is there another player on Earth facing tougher competition than Modric, Kroos and Rakitic? Probably 3 of the top 5 CMs in the world.Do we really want a player who can’t start for real or his national team . We want Real Madrid starting 11players not their second tam