Middle East Conflict (merged) | Iran launch missile attack after Israel invade Lebanon

[Scottyboi]

I would agree with this. I couldn't agree more with the idea that the Jewish people have a right to statehood. What I don't accept is that they can unilaterally dictate the boundaries of that state, in the face of dispute from the 'natives', without challenge.

How long can it realistically last?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I said the manner in which you were trying to justify something was that of someone who had been paid to do so. I never said or implied that you were paid to do so, just that you were acting in that manner. You seriously think that merits reporting?

I expressed an opinion. You felt I was wrong to express it and attacked me and another poster personally and impugned my integrity. I've seen Ric lose his rag completely when people suggest, even jokingly, he's paid to do certain things on here. So yes, it does.

 

[aguerooooo]

The truth is Israel was a land grab by a bunch of crooks hiding behind an ideology claiming a religion as justification.

While the likes of west didsbury defends on the grounds of sympathy for the Jewish cause, I doubt he see`s that cause as theft and murder, but what else is Israel but a bunch of foreigners who rocked up in tanks and forced the locals out at the end of a gun ?.
Condemning Hamas and all the other groups for violence is all well and good, but what other choice was left to them ?, the land grabs and murders continue so what are they supposed to do, they are the product of Israel.
What would YOU do if there was a knock on the door and a bloke in a tank told you to f*ck off because its his house now, would you at least try and fight back, would you bring your kids up to fight, how far would you go when nobody will lift a finger to help.

THE LIKES OF WEST DIDSBURY!! OH HAMAS BY THE WAY ARE MURDERING THERE OWN PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE THAT BY BUYING WEAPONS TO AIM AT ISRAEL THEY DENY FAMILIES OF A DECENT ECONOMY FOOD GAS ELECTRIC SORRY MATE GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT

 

[Irwell]

I expressed an opinion. You felt I was wrong to express it and attacked me and another poster personally and impugned my integrity. I've seen Ric lose his rag completely when people suggest, even jokingly, he's paid to do certain things on here. So yes, it does.

I can't believe you're actually being serious (again). I hate Apple and go on about it to anyone who will listen. If someone asked me why I would say I'm a paid shill. Your skin is seriously that thin?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Well according to the internationally agreed IHRA definition of antisemitism it is. This includes:

• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such
• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

So guilty on two counts I'm afraid.

As far as I can discern the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-Semitism, as of March this year, has been formally adopted by the following countries....

Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Austria, Germany, Israel, Scotland, and the United Kingdom.

The IHRA definition has been circulating for over a decade and has already been buried once. It is almost identical to the European Union monitoring commission’s working definition, formulated in 2005 as part of the global response to the second intifada in the early 2000s. The definition was never accorded any official status by the EUMC and was finally dropped by its successor body, the Fundamental Rights Agency.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The truth is Israel was a land grab by a bunch of crooks hiding behind an ideology claiming a religion as justification.

While the likes of west didsbury defends on the grounds of sympathy for the Jewish cause, I doubt he see`s that cause as theft and murder, but what else is Israel but a bunch of foreigners who rocked up in tanks and forced the locals out at the end of a gun ?.
Condemning Hamas and all the other groups for violence is all well and good, but what other choice was left to them ?, the land grabs and murders continue so what are they supposed to do, they are the product of Israel.
What would YOU do if there was a knock on the door and a bloke in a tank told you to f*ck off because its his house now, would you at least try and fight back, would you bring your kids up to fight, how far would you go when nobody will lift a finger to help.

This was a good thread till the likes of you rocked up with nothing useful to say and only being interested in inflaming opinions. Using the phrase "a bunch of crooks" to describe people presumably fleeing from Europe doesn't really help things does it? It's blatantly antisemitic in fact. There were also strict immigration controls in place up to 1948 and many were detained in camps not similar to the ones they'd been rescued from in Germany. In fact some were sent back to places like Dachau as they were denied entry to the mandate. So there were hardly boatloads flooding in from Europe. And you make it sound like Palestine was all peace and light until this "bunch of crooks rocked up" in tanks. The Jews were being attacked by irregular Arab armies first of all then the regular armies joined in after statehood was declared. The new Israelis were fighting for their very lives and existence and while the ethnic cleansing that certainly took place in some areas shouldn't have happened, you could understand why a small country, fighting for its very existence, might not want potentially hostile groups in their midst.

And does your sympathy for the Palestinians also extend to the equal number of Jews who were forced or felt so unsafe that they had to leave their own homelands in places like Egypt, Morocco, Syria and Iraq? Many of those were effectively expelled at the point of a gun and not allowed to take their property with them. Yet somehow they all got absorbed into a space much smaller than the sum of the countries they'd left. So couldn't those countries have found places for the 700,000 Palestinian refugees?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

As far as I can discern the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-Semitism, as of March this year, has been formally adopted by the following countries....

Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Austria, Germany, Israel, Scotland, and the United Kingdom.

The IHRA has 31 member countries, and 11 observer or liaison countries. And even if what you say is true, the UK has adopted it (as has the Greater Manchester Combined authority) so it's quite legitimate to use it.

Leaving Israel untouchable for years to come.

And there you are. How does Israel as a country get dragged into a definition of antisemitism? The IHRA definition specifically says that criticism of Israel is not de facto antisemitism.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I can't believe you're actually being serious (again). I hate Apple and go on about it to anyone who will listen. If someone asked me why I would say I'm a paid shill. Your skin is seriously that thin?

You do talk some absolute shite. Who pays you to talk down Apple? No one I'd imagine. So your not a paid shill are you? But it is quite common to dismiss Jews who defend Israel as paid shills or being in the pay of Mossad. So I don't think I'm being sensitive as you're using a common, anti-Jewish trope.

We have different opinions. You think yours is right and I think mine is right. It's as simple as that yet you can't accept I could have the opinion I have without being paid to have it. If you can't see how insulting that is then there's no point carrying on this discussion. I'll let Ric deal with it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Has to be said - quite fittingly - this thread has become as intractable as the conflict itself

 

[Sean85]

And there you are. How does Israel as a country get dragged into a definition of antisemitism? The IHRA definition specifically says that criticism of Israel is not de facto antisemitism.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the things that makes this a difficult topic to discuss. whenever the Israeli government are a bit heavy handed, which may be an understatement, people seem to think all Jewish people agree with their actions which fuels anti-Semitism which Israel then seems to use as evidence/ excuse to do it again. It's a vixivic circle. I live in Prestwich and cheetham hill is 2 minutes away. Muslims jews athiests and all sorts live within a stone's throw of each other, it's probably naive of me to wonder why they can't make it work over there, surely it can't be that hard?