Middle East Conflict

[BlueAnorak]

I disagree that fault is irrelevant. What did Sinwar think a right-wing Israeli led by a man who only had his own self-interest and political survival (which was by no means certain then) at heart was going to do in reaction to the events of October 7th?

And when they did it, he hid in tunnels while the people he supposedly represented died above him in their thousands.

It was totally intentional Colin.
Hamas like Hezbollah and Iran want to murder 7.5m Jews. It's unfortunate that they jumped the gun and didn't wait for Hezbollah and Iran to join them in their Jihad. They thought the others would join in their fight. Their stupidity gave Israel the opportunity to defeat each in detail before moving on to the next enemy after nullifying Hamas as an effective force.
They don't want a two state solution they want a "no Jews" solution.
Talk of displacing Jews elsewhere is just that talk - much like Hilter relocating Jews elsewhere. The elsewhere turned out to be death camps.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream world OR agrees with the "Final Solution".

 

[dublinblue12]

 

[BlueAnorak]

Last October did not light the blue touch paper, it merely escalated it, Israel was already bombing schools and hospitals, October just gave the excuse for the genocidal war criminals to steal more land, if you want to blame Hamas do so, but Palestinians already had more babies die at the hands of Israel, than those that died on October the 7th

Where have you been since the continual rain of missiles launched from the Gaza strip started?
Most get Intercepted, but thats not the point. Bad waves of missiles result in Israel destroying launch sites and located arms storage sites - which coincidently are built in/under schools and hospitals.
Israel gives warning of strikes - though recently, sometimes not - mainly due to the fog of war.

 

[robbieh]

I understand the frustration of the Palestinians totally.

But I don't understand why Sinwar insisted that a massacre and taking of hostages was going to improve their situation.

I agree with you. He probably didn't think that.

So I imagine he knew there'd be a huge response. Possibly not on the scale we've seen.

I mean it's certainly resuscitated talk of 2 states in the wider world which may have been an objective. As in Europe we assumed things were relatively quiet. Everyone worrying about Ukraine. But for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank it was business as usual.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

Where have you been since the continual rain of missiles launched from the Gaza strip started?
Most get Intercepted, but thats not the point. Bad waves of missiles result in Israel destroying launch sites and located arms storage sites - which coincidently are built in/under schools and hospitals.
Israel gives warning of strikes - though recently, sometimes not - mainly due to the fog of war.

What clap trap, so the saturation bombing came after a warning, you must think the Palestinians are some sort of lesser being, if after 20 years of Israel bombing schools and hospitals they have not learnt not to put arms there.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The main fault is the occupation and theft of land. You're never sorting anything out until this problem is addressed.

I wouldn't disagree with that sentiment but there's another fairly key fault is also the refusal of some of the extremist Palestinian groups, and their backers, to recognise Israel's right to exist.

That's the other side of the coin that has to be solved before the problem is solved.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I agree with you. He probably didn't think that.

So I imagine he knew there'd be a huge response. Possibly not on the scale we've seen.

I mean it's certainly resuscitated talk of 2 states in the wider world which may have been an objective. As in Europe we assumed things were relatively quiet. Everyone worrying about Ukraine. But for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank it was business as usual.

You could equally argue that his intention was precisely to get a response so brutal that other anti-Israel elements, specifically those controlled by Iran, plus other sympathisers in the Arab and Muslim worlds, would join in.

It was known that Netanyahu relied on hardline elements to keep his government in power, after all. He was hardly going to hold out an olive branch and say " Hey guys. I get you're upset. Let's talk about this" was he?

 

[grunge]

You could equally argue that his intention was precisely to get a response so brutal that other anti-Israel elements, specifically those controlled by Iran, plus other sympathisers in the Arab and Muslim worlds, would join in.

It was known that Netanyahu relied on hardline elements to keep his government in power, after all. He was hardly going to hold out an olive branch and say " Hey guys. I get you're upset. Let's talk about this" was he?

This has always been my view and by doing so totally destabilise the region. and has the additional side effect of creating a new generation of militants.

lots of UN countries turning on Isreal I think was a surprise and a bonus to them.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

View attachment 135317

Why doesn't this surprise me. Ireland is the most antisemitic non-Muslim nation on earth. It's even more antisemitic than many Muslims nations.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Why doesn't this surprise me. Ireland is the most antisemitic non-Muslim nation on earth. It's even more antisemitic than many Muslims nations.

I know you believe what you want and I won’t sway you, but being Pro-Palestinian for want of a better phrase, and being anteSemitic are not the same thing.
Irish people see similarities that perhaps are not recognised by British people as true or significant in our histories.
Ireland recognises and supports a two state solution.
How that’s achieved no? I have no idea.