Middle East Conflict

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

A little look into the Koran would answer that question for you !

There's no doubt that anti-semitism is presently rife in the Muslim world, as evidenced by the opening paragraph of Chapter 13 of Ed Husain's acclaimed book The House of Islam: A Global History. However, as the author goes on to explain, this has not always been the case. The chapter as a whole is too long to post here but after providing a historical overview of Muslim-Jewish relations, Husain provides a robust defence of the virtues of the modern state of Israel (though one that is curiously based on an appeal to its economic vibrancy and dynamism).



However, it was the Qur'an that you mentioned. So let's cover that as well. The following is an extract from CTR Hewer's Understanding Islam: The First Ten Steps. It's a less well known but excellent introduction to the faith and Hewer covers plenty of ground in a few short paragraphs. Accordingly, here they are:







Of course, there are anti-Semitic hadiths as well. But those are dealt with in Jonathan AC Brown's Misquoting Muhammad. Been a long time since I read his book but, from failing memory, like the one about the 72 virgins, the chain of transmission or isnad is weak in each instance.

Lastly, in his brief but estimable survey Islamic History: A Very Short Introduction, Adam Silverstein has this to say:

'...the anti-Semitic theories that are widely espoused by Muslims aiming to reverse the effects of colonialism and imperialism (for which, according to these theories, the Jews are responsible), are themselves Western imperialist products - Muslim societies had nothing like them until [Christian] Arabs imported the ideas from Europe to Muslim lands in the 19th centuries.'

 

[Ducado]

Iran isn’t Russia’s puppet. If anything, Russia needs Iran more than Iran needs Russia. Iran acts in what it sees its own interests. As for Hezbolla getting involved it is likely more by default than anything else.

The issue is less shadowy puppet masters controlling events, but more people making it up as they go along and acting on emotion with no thought for the future, and that is way more dangerous than any puppet masters.

The Israeli‘s level Gaza then what happens? The Israeli’s can’t leave Hamas in control and don’t want to administer an area of 2 million people. It was until a week ago Israeli policy to let Hamas have control as Hamas would never accept a compromise or two state solution and that suited Netanyahu just fine. Now he is facing the biggest Israeli security lapse in living memory and his Gaza policy shredded.

As you said earlier unless underlying issues are addressed we will keep playing this situation on a bloody loop, but with Hamas on one side and Netanyahu on the other there is no pragmatic way forward that I can see. Even if both disappear there is a good chance they will be replaced by people with similar attitudes given the death and destruction all around them.

Perhaps puppet may be the wrong word, but it is in both countries mutual interest to distract or drag the US in to a Mid East conflagration, as we know they are easy to start but very hard to stop

What is clear is, the status que can not be maintained, Israel for all it's military capacity can not fight an unending urban war in Gaza the loss of life would be too much, and without flattening the whole place they are going to have too if they want to achieve their objectives the prospect of 100.000s of dead civilians in Gaza, makes even the most blood thirsty stop and think

If there is anything good to come out of this, it could be to make everyone sit up and listen, there will be no peace with a fair and equitable solution there are only three options

1) Israel returns to it's pre 67 borders and a Palestinian state can be created
2) The same as above but with some land swaps
3) All Palestinians are given citizenship of Israel

1 & 3 are not going to happen so it has to be 2, and both sides need to compromise like the Palestinians dropping the right to return demand and perhaps even Jerusalem as their capitol

 

[dublinblue12]

How are all these missiles getting through now, did they take down something when they were initially overrun? A mate sent footage from Tel Aviv a few months ago from his hotel and as soon as the missile is launched it's almost immediately destroyed by the Israeli defence systems

 

[CTID1988]

Never thought I would see the day when people are out on the streets of the UK celebrating a terror attack with complete impunity. Madness

 

[trueblue1972]

How are all these missiles getting through now, did they take down something when they were initially overrun? I had a mate send footage from Tel Aviv a few months ago and as soon as the missile is launched it's almost immediately destroyed by the Israeli defence systems

The Iron dome is roughly 95% efficient

 

[MouldensChippy]

There's no doubt that anti-semitism is presently rife in the Muslim world, as evidenced by the opening paragraph of Chapter 13 of Ed Husain's acclaimed book The House of Islam: A Global History. However, as the author goes on to explain, this has not always been the case. The chapter as a whole is too long to post here but after providing a historical overview of Muslim-Jewish relations, Husain provides a robust defence of the virtues of the modern state of Israel (though one that is curiously based on an appeal to its economic vibrancy and dynamism).

View attachment 95687

However, it was the Qur'an that you mentioned. So let's cover that as well. The following is an extract from CTR Hewer's Understanding Islam: The First Ten Steps. It's a less well known but excellent introduction to the faith and Hewer covers plenty of ground in a few short paragraphs. Accordingly, here they are:

View attachment 95688

View attachment 95689

View attachment 95690

Of course, there are anti-Semitic hadiths as well. But those are dealt with in Jonathan AC Brown's Misquoting Muhammad. Been a long time since I read his book but, from failing memory, like the one about the 72 virgins, the chain of transmission or isnad is weak in each instance.

Lastly, in his brief but estimable survey Islamic History: A Very Short Introduction, Adam Silverstein has this to say:

'...the anti-Semitic theories that are widely espoused by Muslims aiming to reverse the effects of colonialism and imperialism (for which, according to these theories, the Jews are responsible), are themselves Western imperialist products - Muslim societies had nothing like them until [Christian] Arabs imported the ideas from Europe to Muslim lands in the 19th centuries.'

And yet, they are still there, and even quoted in Hamas charters.
BTW, I can't in all honesty take ED Husain (former Islamist, and now money maker off the back of it seriously)

The others have their own drums to beat, as all of the apologists do.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

How are all these missiles getting through now, did they take down something when they were initially overrun? I had a mate send footage from Tel Aviv a few months ago and as soon as the missile is launched it's almost immediately destroyed by the Israeli defence systems

If you launch a lot of them at the same time it can overwhelm the Iron Dome System. It will take some out but not all of them, Hezbollah have Iranian made rockets that are much more advanced than what Hamas has. The worry is if this opens up on two fronts they could stretch the air defence systems even further.

 

[blueinsa]

The Iron dome is roughly 95% efficient

I’d wager it’s having to deal with a volume of missiles that it was probably never designed for or was felt would ever likely see as well.

 

[trueblue1972]

I’d wager it’s having to deal with a volume of missiles that it was probably never designed for or was felt would ever likely see as well.

I'd imagine it's probably running at a lower rate currently, srill amazing peice of technology

 

[blueinsa]

I'd imagine it's probably running at a lower rate currently, srill amazing peice of technology

Incredible technology.