Middle East Conflict

[threespires]

There’s been at least 4 posts that have clearly called for wiping out all of Gaza including children. I would’ve preferred the posts remained to show these cunts for what they are personally.

The posts have subsequently removed. There really are some sick knuckle dragging cunts on here and the real world.

I'm alright with them being removed because they're either attention seeking or distrubed and either way we don't need to be discussing them. Though I do accept you shouldn't bury your head in the sand that such views exist (on either side of the debate).

 

[metalblue]

Who'd have thought any state, ever, woukd supply an enemy state at a time of war.
Show me another country that has done the same, ever.

Are they at war with Gaza or with Hamas?

 

[blueparrot]

The creation of the State of Israel was always going to be problematic. Essentially a huge number of people, culturally western, landed in a middle eastern country.
It certainly has seemed that the only way to guarantee its existance is for there to be sporadic violence on both sides that has upheld the status quo.
The idea that there would be long term peace without a viable Palestinian state on its border's is idiotic. And both Israeli governments, Hamas and various other actors seem keen for this not to happen.

I sort of knew the history, but when you see it as starkly as this in maps,you do wonder what thinking ever made them think it would work.

Israel's borders explained in maps

The conflict between Israel and Palestinians has roots which precede the formation of the country itself. Here's how the shape of the Jewish state has changed.

www.bbc.co.uk

That said I remember at the time of Clinton they seemed to be very close to a negotiated settlement with Arafat,until U.S and Israeli elections derailed it and it never got restarted.Maybe one day that agreement they were working on thencan be the basis of new negotiations.

 

[BringBackSwales]

Has anyone suggested wiping out Gaza? Seen a few suggestions about wiping out Hamas but I don’t see a problem with that.

Yes, I reported one earlier this morning. Called the **** out who wrote it as the disgusting vermin that he/she is. I used to like sprouts as well

 

[Vic]

Is the below from the BBC another reason for the Israeli evacuation calls from the north of the Gaza strip, so in what is already one of the most densely populated places on the planet, even more land can be taken from the Palestinians?:


Cabinet minister Gideon Sa’ar has appeared on Israeli TV. He said Hamas must be destroyed so it could never threaten Israel again, adding this would serve as a lesson to the region.

He also said that Gaza must end up smaller - with Israel taking control of a belt of land in the east and north of the strip. This would be a "security zone" and anyone who entered it would be "intercepted" by the military.

He made clear these objectives were his personal views. but that he was saying them everywhere. Sa’ar said losing land was the price that “Arabs understand”.

This will play into the worst fears of Palestinians as it evokes for them the core issue - the loss of their lands in the conflicts surrounding Israel’s creation 75 years ago.

They could of course put a security zone on their side of the border, rather than placing people in villages close to the border.

Except - that security zone is already there....

 

[Chippy_boy]

What if the mad gunman is actually a team of thousands of gunmen and that one house of hostages is surrounded by more houses of mad gunmen. Plus, when the mad gunmen aren't holding people hostage, the buggers are also firing rockets at the surrounding houses containing civilians.

What do you do in this situation? I'd imagine as a civilian living nearby I'd want something to be done about it I reckon.

I'd say there's not a long they CAN do about it, since they are never going to get all the mad gunmen and all that will happen is they'd kill many innocent people and make martyrs of others. So perhaps a good analogy.

Israel has ZERO chance of wiping out Hamas, since it will simply be re-stocked with weapons from Iran, Syria and anywhere else sympathetic to their cause. It is a futile task that will simply kill many more thousands of innocent people, for no gain. In fact the opposite of gain, since worldwide support for Israel will be damaged and Paletinians only more determined to strike Israel again.

 

[Palerider]

The creation of the State of Israel was always going to be problematic. Essentially a huge number of people, culturally western, landed in a middle eastern country.
It certainly has seemed that the only way to guarantee its existance is for there to be sporadic violence on both sides that has upheld the status quo.
The idea that there would be long term peace without a viable Palestinian state on its border's is idiotic. And both Israeli governments, Hamas and various other actors seem keen for this not to happen.

Excellent post. Basically the problem is that Israel has western values whilst all it's neighbours have middle eastern values. Israel has been attacked by all it's neighbours so, not surprisingly, has developed a defensive strategy of fighting fire with greater fire. I watched an interview on Sky where the interviewee stated 'for this to be solved Palestine needs to lose it's victim complex and Israel needs to lose it's superior attitude'. Bottom line though is that unless you have reasonable people on both sides then negotiations and progress are impossible. Reasonable and the Middle East are not bed mates!

 

[inchy14]

Humanity is fucked, basically.

Can’t disagree there mate.

Will it ever change or will we always stay a greedy selfish society? I’d like to think one day it will change but what would be the catalyst for it?

I’d say God knows but he’s the fucking problem for the most part!!






Disclaimer…. I don’t believe in fairy tales…..

 

[metalblue]

Israel is a democratic nation. Its citizens are able to vote regardless of their ethnic origin, religion, level of religious observance, gender, sexuality or other defining characteristic. It's an imperfect voting system though, as it tends to mean that the minority parties set the agenda. But the Israeli people have a choice and with the nature of the coalitions often being fragile, they have to exercise that choice regularly.

Gaza (and the West Bank) last had elections 17 years ago. In Gaza, Hamas won that election and, following a civil war, executed many Fatah members (and also gay people). It rules by terror and has effectively left the people it supposedly represents in a permanent state of war and subjugation, by its refusal to cooperate in any meaningful way with Israel. Yet the 2m people in Gaza have no choice in the matter.

The term "fascist" is often defined as one that doesn't allow any opposition. Now, which one best fits that definition?

For balance to this one sided narrative…..Neither Israel nor the US much liked the outcome of those elections so armed/supported Fatah to overthrow Hamas - which is sort of why they ended up executed. Shortly after elections Hamas also offered to recognise Israel’s right to exist wanting a return to the 1967 borders but that was rejected.

 

[inbetween]

The creation of the State of Israel was always going to be problematic. Essentially a huge number of people, culturally western, landed in a middle eastern country.
It certainly has seemed that the only way to guarantee its existance is for there to be sporadic violence on both sides that has upheld the status quo.
The idea that there would be long term peace without a viable Palestinian state on its border's is idiotic. And both Israeli governments, Hamas and various other actors seem keen for this not to happen.

One of the biggest problems in the regions is that the hatred stems from religious hatred. It's not as simple as state land ownership, it goes beyond that to religion. There is also the problem that countries like Iran have a state policy which is to annihilate Israel.

Israel is not going to give up its territory as some want and that only leads to the eventual need for Israel to eliminate threats to that such as Hamas. However, Hamas know this, their goal is centred on encouraging third party involvement and the only counterbalance to that is the fact that the entire region fears western/US involvement.

The US is therefore an absolutely key mediator. It is the only country that can restrain Israel and it is the only country feared by powerful states such as Iran. However the US blew it's neutral position several years ago because of an idiotic move by Trump and now it's led by a clueless 80 year old who doesn't know what day it is.