Middle East Conflict

[Metal Biker]

BBC stating that water supplies are running out and that the minimum requirement per day for basic needs is 100 litres per person?

That equates to 176 pints or 22 gallons.

Seems a bloody high amount to me.

I doubt I drink that much water in a week. Maybe they meant ml?

 

[goalmole]

I wish this video would be shown in all Friday services on both sides. He is spot on, the people involved have to talk. Especially the extremists on both sides have to talk. All the moderates have been talking for decades, without convincing the extremists.
So how do extremists start talking instead of hating?

I genuinely think the hold and power of the Israeli right wing is the problem.
The West Bank is run by Fatah who have essentially capitulated already and would be open to a reasonable offer that gives the Palestinians a state that is free from Israeli coercion, control and interference. This leaves the extremists in the Gaza strip. They would become a very small minority and would lose all support of the local population without which they cannot exist.
The onus is on the more powerful party to put a fair and viable offer on the table and carry the moderate sections of Palestinian society with them but that would entail confronting and reining in the settlers who are as big a problem as Hamas.
It takes courageous statesmen with vision and principle to solve these seemingly intractable problems.
Now might be a good time for these statesmen to step forward.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

She clearly was angry and had a pro Palestinian outlook (some may say agenda).

It’s unclear how missing posters in London help find those taken when they are clearly thousands of miles away and not likely to be spotted in Trafalgar Square.

Yes really shitty behaviour by this woman. Prayers for the hostages.

I think the posters are part of a campaign linked to the Jewish Chronicle to raise awareness or influence politicians. This conflict is always wrapped up in politics.

 

[St.Pauli support]

If or when they enter Gaza that will alter if they dont reach their objectives hastily. I expect ambush after ambush from the maze of tunnels below them. Pop up in one spot to attack and disappear again to appear behind them. IED's and snipers galore and Hamas getting up so close to the Israeli infantry that the IDF air power is of no use. Artillery, tanks and other armoured support will be of little use because they require lots of infantry support in urban areas and manoeuvring in rubble filled streets is a major issue but that's providing that they use armour at all. Fighting in built up areas is heavily on the side of the defender and I expect the IDF casualties to be very high which inevitably leads to a loss of morale if you get bogged down. Then you have to hold the area you've captured and protect it from being infiltrated by hidden tunnels. It's a man power sponge. It's a safe bet to say Hamas has arms and ammo and has been planning their defence for a long time.

We should expect IDF being aware of every single aspect and maybe a bit more, don't we? They are aware that the world is watching closely, too. IDF is also well known not to rush troops in like Putin does, quite the opposite.

I guess IDF would try to find and destroy huge parts of the tunnel system and they need to have a clear idea how to do that with minimal own and civilian losses. Netanjahu and IDF are under extreme pressure after heavy criticism and can't afford another disaster. They won't be unprepared for such a difficult mission that is key to their national security after their 7 October nightmare.

We won't have a winner on either side, that much is clear. As we said, they should talk instead, but extremists won't talk.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Bravo Matt Carthy:

I don’t support any one particular party in Ireland but I’ll state openly in here that this is exactly how much of the people I know feel when it comes to talking about Israel.

We know and fully accept the complexity of the situation and where the politics lie in world terms. But we tend to call-out the bullshit, regardless of whether there is a glimmer of hope or not of getting world powers to denounce what is obvious.

It’ll take a global effort to bring justice to both sides of the conflict in that region, but global powers have their own irons in the fire and will not address the elephant in the room.

I won’t mention individual posts as I know I’m playing catch up and am miles behind, but suffice to say I’m probably responsible for bringing the Northern Irish Troubles into the debate, as I said at the time of doing so, that I was reluctant to get involved as I wasn’t sure how restrained I could be.
But believe me I have been restrained despite posting more than I expected to.
There are great similarities as I have said but nothing as obvious as the argument in here about the British government not nuking Derry or Belfast etc., because the IRA didn’t launch missiles on the mainland and so forth.

All I’ll say, is that everything depends on the perspective of the protagonists, either side on the ground and the community around them who they claim to represent. State terrorism is real to people and it is not confined to launching rockets.
If you want to trace the history and roots of non state terrorism I think you’ll find many similarities and the one glaring source for nurturing of radicalisation or sympathies towards it, stems from Authorities or Governments who still to this day do not acknowledge their own culpability in allowing apartheid, sectarianism in policing and rule of law. Unequal enforcement of law and order. Persecution of one side and not acknowledging that they have created an apartheid regime.

I’m quite aware that there are ex-military in here who served in Northern Ireland and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone who, let’s face it, had an impossible job to do and that’s what it was. A job.

But I’ll go back further in history beyond the setting up of the border, beyond the 1801 act of union, which was rushed in basically because of the 1798 rebellion by United Irishmen that contained Catholics, Protestants and Presbyterians calling for a Republic and say that the United Kingdom introduced sectarianism into this country and maintained law and order with Penal Laws and apartheid although you would never get an admission to this day about it.

I hate going over this because as I keep saying that’s the conflict. There are those up North that will still deny or perhaps choose to interpret things differently. I say it’s an objective look at history and understanding it is and was the way to get together and formulate peace and the answers to the historical problems.

There were huge mistakes from both sides along the way, but ultimately it took talking to your enemies whether you considered them terrorists or not. Because let’s face it, I’m trying to show that there are forms of state terrorism that should not be excused just because you are in power. Injustice is injustice.

And that is where we are in Israel, Palestine, the Middle East in general.
The Israeli government would never admit to state terrorism and they have enough world powers that are willing to support their state terrorism.

I don’t regard what I am saying as contentious or anti-Semite or pro- Palestinian. I just think I see the elephant in the room, that you haven’t a hope of getting the equivalent of a GFA without acknowledging the reality of how the state of Israel operates.
And I’m fully aware that their enemies would have them wiped off the face of the earth. That’s not acceptable either, but they needn’t pretend that they are fair in their handling of the ordinary Palestinian.

We are all culpable insofar as we tolerate our own government’s silence. The world needs to be involved in calling out the bullshit and brokering peace, but as I said their are too many world powers with their own irons in the fire in the region.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I'm not Palestinian but if I were I would be very happy to go with that solution and I think most Palestinians would be happy with it as well.
Otherwise, all you are fighting for is a name and a flag.
Give the Palestinians equal rights, and responsibilities, in the state of Israel and it solves the problem.
Sadly, the Israelis will never agree to this.

No because it wouldn’t guarantee control into the future in free elections.
Look at free elections in NI and the fact that for the first time in its history they should have had a nationalist first minister.
Could that be the reason that Stormont isn’t up and running?

Well further down the line this would be the eventuality in Israel if you really had a democracy.

 

[St.Pauli support]

I genuinely think the hold and power of the Israeli right wing is the problem.
The West Bank is run by Fatah who have essentially capitulated already and would be open to a reasonable offer that gives the Palestinians a state that is free from Israeli coercion, control and interference. This leaves the extremists in the Gaza strip. They would become a very small minority and would lose all support of the local population without which they cannot exist.
The onus is on the more powerful party to put a fair and viable offer on the table and carry the moderate sections of Palestinian society with them but that would entail confronting and reining in the settlers who are as big a problem as Hamas.
It takes courageous statesmen with vision and principle to solve these seemingly intractable problems.
Now might be a good time for these statesmen to step forward.

Then we have Iranian Mullahs in that equation and other extremists that would do anything to avoid a peaceful solution for ideologist reasons. How do we keep them out of your plan?

 

[philiph20]

I don’t support any one particular party in Ireland but I’ll state openly in here that this is exactly how much of the people I know feel when it comes to talking about Israel.

We know and fully accept the complexity of the situation and where the politics lie in world terms. But we tend to call-out the bullshit, regardless of whether there is a glimmer of hope or not of getting world powers to denounce what is obvious.

It’ll take a global effort to bring justice to both sides of the conflict in that region, but global powers have their own irons in the fire and will not address the elephant in the room.

I won’t mention individual posts as I know I’m playing catch up and am miles behind, but suffice to say I’m probably responsible for bringing the Northern Irish Troubles into the debate, as I said at the time of doing so, that I was reluctant to get involved as I wasn’t sure how restrained I could be.
But believe me I have been restrained despite posting more than I expected to.
There are great similarities as I have said but nothing as obvious the argument in here about the British government not nuking Derry or Belfast etc., because the IRA didn’t launch missiles on the mainland and so forth.

All I’ll say, is that everything depends on the perspective of the protagonists either side on the ground and the community around them who they claim to represent. State terrorism is real to people and it is not confined to launching rockets.
If you want to trace the history and roots of non state terrorism I think you’ll find many similarities and the one glaring source for nurturing of radicalisation or sympathies towards it, stems from Authorities or Governments who still to this day do not acknowledge their own culpability in allowing apartheid, sectarianism in policing and rule of law. Unequal enforcement of law and order. Persecution of one side and not acknowledging that they have created an apartheid regime.

I’m quite aware that there are ex-military in here who served in Northern Ireland and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone who, let’s face it had an impossible job to do and that’s what it was. A job.

But I’ll go back further in history beyond the setting up of the border, beyond the 1801 act of union, which was rushed in basically because of the 1798 rebellion by United Irishmen that contained Catholics, Protestants and Presbyterians calling for a Republic and say that the United Kingdom introduced sectarianism into this country and maintained law and order with Penal Laws and apartheid although you would never get an admission to this day about it.

I hate going over this because as I keep saying that’s the conflict. There are those up North that will still deny or perhaps choose to interpret things differently. I say it’s an objective look at history and understanding it is and was the way to get together and formulate peace and the answers to the historical problems.

There were huge mistakes from both sides along the way, but ultimately it took talking to your enemies whether you considered them terrorists or not. Because let’s face it, I’m trying to show that there are forms of state terrorism that should not be excused just because you are in power. Injustice is injustice.

And that is where we are in Israel, Palestine, the Middle East in general.
The Israeli government would never admit to state terrorism and they have enough world powers that are willing to support their state terrorism.

I don’t regard what I am saying as contentious or anti-Semite or pro- Palestinian. I just think I see the elephant in the room, that you haven’t a hope of getting the equivalent of a GFA without acknowledging the reality of how the state of Israel operates.
And I’m fully aware that their enemies would have them wiped off the face of the earth. That’s not acceptable either, but they needn’t pretend that they are fair in their handling of the ordinary Palestinian.

We are all culpable insofar as we tolerate our own government’s silence. The world needs to be involved in calling out the bullshit and brokering peace, but as I said their are too many world powers with their own irons in the fire in the region.

Nice to see your president and PM not taking sides in this conflict and calling out Ursula Von de Leyen and saying 'she doesn't speak for Ireland', HAMAS and the far right extremists who govern Israel are both hideous and taking sides doesn't help anybody, the ordinary folk of Israel and the Gaza strip are suffering currently as a result of the antics of HAMAS and Likud and would'nt it be nice if that prick in number 10 and that tedious robot Starmer actually actually had the balls to not take sides.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

She clearly was angry and had a pro Palestinian outlook (some may say agenda).

It’s unclear how missing posters in London help find those taken when they are clearly thousands of miles away and not likely to be spotted in Trafalgar Square.

Again not clear why she and some other people seem to think that pictures of kidnapped Israelis diminishes the cause. It's almost as if they are trying to control the narrative.

 

[Gray]

Probably means baths and showers as well as for hydration , washing clothes and cooking

Two of us in our house and combined we don’t use anywhere near that amount in a day.