Middle East Conflict

I don’t support any one particular party in Ireland but I’ll state openly in here that this is exactly how much of the people I know feel when it comes to talking about Israel.

We know and fully accept the complexity of the situation and where the politics lie in world terms. But we tend to call-out the bullshit, regardless of whether there is a glimmer of hope or not of getting world powers to denounce what is obvious.

It’ll take a global effort to bring justice to both sides of the conflict in that region, but global powers have their own irons in the fire and will not address the elephant in the room.

I won’t mention individual posts as I know I’m playing catch up and am miles behind, but suffice to say I’m probably responsible for bringing the Northern Irish Troubles into the debate, as I said at the time of doing so, that I was reluctant to get involved as I wasn’t sure how restrained I could be.
But believe me I have been restrained despite posting more than I expected to.
There are great similarities as I have said but nothing as obvious as the argument in here about the British government not nuking Derry or Belfast etc., because the IRA didn’t launch missiles on the mainland and so forth.

All I’ll say, is that everything depends on the perspective of the protagonists, either side on the ground and the community around them who they claim to represent. State terrorism is real to people and it is not confined to launching rockets.
If you want to trace the history and roots of non state terrorism I think you’ll find many similarities and the one glaring source for nurturing of radicalisation or sympathies towards it, stems from Authorities or Governments who still to this day do not acknowledge their own culpability in allowing apartheid, sectarianism in policing and rule of law. Unequal enforcement of law and order. Persecution of one side and not acknowledging that they have created an apartheid regime.

I’m quite aware that there are ex-military in here who served in Northern Ireland and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone who, let’s face it, had an impossible job to do and that’s what it was. A job.

But I’ll go back further in history beyond the setting up of the border, beyond the 1801 act of union, which was rushed in basically because of the 1798 rebellion by United Irishmen that contained Catholics, Protestants and Presbyterians calling for a Republic and say that the United Kingdom introduced sectarianism into this country and maintained law and order with Penal Laws and apartheid although you would never get an admission to this day about it.

I hate going over this because as I keep saying that’s the conflict. There are those up North that will still deny or perhaps choose to interpret things differently. I say it’s an objective look at history and understanding it is and was the way to get together and formulate peace and the answers to the historical problems.

There were huge mistakes from both sides along the way, but ultimately it took talking to your enemies whether you considered them terrorists or not. Because let’s face it, I’m trying to show that there are forms of state terrorism that should not be excused just because you are in power. Injustice is injustice.

And that is where we are in Israel, Palestine, the Middle East in general.
The Israeli government would never admit to state terrorism and they have enough world powers that are willing to support their state terrorism.

I don’t regard what I am saying as contentious or anti-Semite or pro- Palestinian. I just think I see the elephant in the room, that you haven’t a hope of getting the equivalent of a GFA without acknowledging the reality of how the state of Israel operates.
And I’m fully aware that their enemies would have them wiped off the face of the earth. That’s not acceptable either, but they needn’t pretend that they are fair in their handling of the ordinary Palestinian.

We are all culpable insofar as we tolerate our own government’s silence. The world needs to be involved in calling out the bullshit and brokering peace, but as I said their are too many world powers with their own irons in the fire in the region.
Well said mate. Honest peace brokers are in short supply. Ireland as a whole has a duty to offer support to both Israel and Palestine. We managed to find a way to peace albeit bloody and still frayed around the edges today but still better than the alternative which is what Israel and Palestine must do now.

No political party should be choosing one over the other but that is the state of play. The rich and powerful back Isreal and the poor and destitute get trampled over. It happens in every country so why should we expect it not to happen in the melting pot of gaza?

Shameful behaviour by certain governments.

We should not be boxed in to supporting one or the other. I can easily condemn Hamas and I can easily condemn Israel. Stop the madness before any more people have to die.
 
Some good news

Maybe a concession, hopefully lead to something in return, rinse and repeat and all these hostages can get home.
 
Really hoping Biden doesn’t regret backing the IDFs version of events with the hospital bombing, lot of independent anaylsis coming out today that’s casting a lot of doubt on their version of events.
 
Really hoping Biden doesn’t regret backing the IDFs version of events with the hospital bombing, lot of independent anaylsis coming out today that’s casting a lot of doubt on their version of events.
Lot of sensitive
Never Israel even in this anger will attack hospital with citizens!
It’s evil who belong to terror organisation
So live analysis even eljazira by ther voices say
It was Islamic terror
 
Really hoping Biden doesn’t regret backing the IDFs version of events with the hospital bombing, lot of independent anaylsis coming out today that’s casting a lot of doubt on their version of events.
Such as?
 
War is shit - it is horrible and many die
But in war, collateral damage happens.
If Hamas didn't want it, they shouldn't have attacked Israel. But they did want it and so attacked Israel and massacred up to1,200 folks in cold blood.
The moral of the story is don't fucking push a stick through a wasps nest if you .don't want the wasps coming after you!
Oh, and no fucking way am I going to support an extremist organisation with a policy of genocide against the people of another country, especially when that country (Israel) is a democracy.
My only concession is IDF do need to sort themselves out their anger and be calm and rational about taking out Hamas as collective punishment of a people and generally doesn't work it just generates recruits for your enemy. Shooting people going about their business isn't a good idea either. So yes I will criticise that - but going after Hamas? No way.
In fact I'm actually amazed how restrained Israel have been over the last 10 years with hundreds of missile being launched over the border every month.
How should the Palestinians fight against the daily oppression and brutality? We know what you don’t want them to do, 70 have been shot dead on the West Bank this week alone some of them by settlers, are they to just sit there and take it?

I abhor violence, I’ve seen the results, but if you are oppressing a people are they not allowed to fight back against there oppresser, it’s a genuine question how would you feel in their shoes?

The inability to see both sides of a conflict is a curse that leads to more death and destruction, I can also add right wing populists will eventually destroy the western world
 
I have learnt a lot from this thread so can't we keep it civil.. For me at this point I have gone past caring about the intellectual reasons that try to justify either side all I see is families grieving for people who are dead, missing or being used as bargaining chips in a sick game. I understand Israel retaliating most countries would but how much is enough for every Hamas member that is killed how many civilians are being killed with no end in sight. At a time when we need real leaders to step up we have people who are putting political ambition first giving speeches about sides winning and teams. It may be cowardly but I can't watch anymore dead children, children being pulled from rubble or children taken as hostages. I understand there are no easy answers but I pray someone stands up and calmer heads prevail because what we are seeing is horrific and for me neither side can justify what they have done and are doing.
 

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