Middle East Conflict

Ducado said:
The statements coming out of the White House, the threat of legal review about how American arms are used, the bellicose rhetoric coming out of the Israeli government, the Americans are being pressured by everyone now to call a halt

There’s going to come a point where the Israelis are going to have to say what comes next, they seem to think that kicking the problem into the long grass like they did before is going to work again, but the 1000s of deaths in this latest round ensures it won’t be, new generations with little sympathy for their position are coming into power now

The choice is stark, either a two state solution or equal rights for all, it can’t go on like this it’s destabilising the world and the strategic interests of the west
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I had some questions about America's stan based on articles I read searching after your previous comment , and I can't bloody find them now !
 
The tide is turning against the Israel right-wing government.

Well done to the journalists from various prime news rather than staying on the high horse, are more covering first hand coverage whilst ignoring the Israel propaganda machine.

Special mention to CNN Clarissa Ward, one of the first few who directly interacted with the injured, the amputated, the disfigured thousands if not tens of thousands, to show to the whole world even just a glimpse but a clear situation of humans being indiscriminately attacked.

IDF motto is now IDgaF when decimating a population of children women and citizens. Self-defence? It’s more of ‘I Don’t Give A Fuck’.

158 countries of the world are now against this ‘1st country’ Israel. For their extreme violence, Its high time they get isolated until they understand they are not holier than thou. Bullies are better cordoned off.
 
Ducado said:
The statements coming out of the White House, the threat of legal review about how American arms are used, the bellicose rhetoric coming out of the Israeli government, the Americans are being pressured by everyone now to call a halt

There’s going to come a point where the Israelis are going to have to say what comes next, they seem to think that kicking the problem into the long grass like they did before is going to work again, but the 1000s of deaths in this latest round ensures it won’t be, new generations with little sympathy for their position are coming into power now

The choice is stark, either a two state solution or equal rights for all, it can’t go on like this it’s destabilising the world and the strategic interests of the west
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Once again, you are more optimistic than I am.

Despite the clearer wording from America, the Israelis continue to do what they want, with a few minor concessions which make no difference on the ground (I do wonder if the "indiscriminate bombing" quote was intended or just an off-the-cuff remark. I can imagine his advisors going wtf?).

I don't pin any hopes on a review of the use of military aid. All too slow, the conflict will be finished before that happens. Nor, again, on the hold-up to the funding. They will get their money.

I don't believe the Israelis don't
have a plan, either. I also don't believe the US don't know what that is. All these people say one thing publicly and say another privately.

As for a one-state solution, that is never going to happen with 5 million Palestinians, and if they don't want a two-state solution, there isn't much left ....
 
The Israel right wing government has no substance to prohibit the accounts of foreign press in Gaza by sweeping under the carpet.

The tide is turning. Enough of the IDF posting their own propaganda videos on behalf of foreign press.

 
The Shadia Abu Ghazala School (UN School)

No shelling, no mortar. No bombs. Palestinians were sheltering the school in hopes of being safe from bombings.

IDF arrived. Pulled out the Palestinian men. The women and young children were inside.

Then after, all them were killed. Point blank. Women. Children. Babies. Execution style. Their bodies piled up.
 
Biden is just saying what he wants his voters to hear. Many of them will be worried by what they are seeing on TV. He's keeping them onside. Privately he's giving Israel more and more time to do what they want.
Most aid agencies, the UN, some European politicians as well as most countries in the global south know the line was crossed weeks if not months ago.
Britain is the US's lapdog and seemingly the US is Israel's.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Nah I do think it's revenge. Robbing their land has been going on for decades seemingly.
None of this happens without Hamas being the shite that they are.

But tbh I think Hamas, Gaza, have won the war.... We all now have a little bit of dislike or hatred for Israel.

Job done, you stupid Israeli govn and its right wing supporters.
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If it's been going on for decades, it was happening before Hamas existed. Hamas exists because it had been happening for decades.
 
cucumberman said:
The Shadia Abu Ghazala School (UN School)

No shelling, no mortar. No bombs. Palestinians were sheltering the school in hopes of being safe from bombings.

IDF arrived. Pulled out the Palestinian men. The women and young children were inside.

Then after, all them were killed. Point blank. Women. Children. Babies. Execution style. Their bodies piled up.
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Only reported in pro-Palestinian media with none of the major media organisations reporting it. It would appear they can’t verify exactly what happened. When reports talk about decomposed bodies that were supposedly only killed within the last 72 hours it makes you question the testimony of the witness. Seems the major media organisations are sceptical or there would be wall to wall coverage.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
They're fighting a war. You might have noticed that wars tend to be somewhat inhumane. Care to give an example of a humane one?

And I'd say their actions maybe have a sound logic. The worse it gets, the more the pressure to stop and therefore the more need for a longer-term solution involving the international community, which takes some responsibility for Gaza and it's future.
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Haaretz published an analysis by an Israeli academic about a week ago saying that 61% of the deaths in Gaza have been civilians, a higher percentage, they say, than the average figure for all wars in the 20th century, and considerably higher than the figure for Israeli wars in Gaza between 2012 and 2022, which averaged 40% civilian casualties. I'd hardly describe their previous wars as 'humane' but the dramatic escalation in violence against civilians is striking and needs explanation.

It might be the case that their escalating violence will finally force major world powers (especially the US) to stop funding and arming them, but you can hardly say this is the deliberate strategy of Netanyahu et al, more just a (possible) outcome of them finally going too far.
 
Do people not think the Americans are not worried about their strategic interests in the region? The longer this goes on the more they lose influence especially at street level this the stuff revolutions are made of, or greater instability in the region, there are worrying signs of other actors moving into the arena
 
west didsblue said:
Only reported in pro-Palestinian media with none of the major media organisations reporting it. It would appear they can’t verify exactly what happened. When reports talk about decomposed bodies that were supposedly only killed within the last 72 hours it makes you question the testimony of the witness. Seems the major media organisations are sceptical or there would be wall to wall coverage.
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Not in the Telegraph? It came up in a search but behind the paywall.
 
KPXBLN said:
Haaretz published an analysis by an Israeli academic about a week ago saying that 61% of the deaths in Gaza have been civilians, a higher percentage, they say, than the average figure for all wars in the 20th century, and considerably higher than the figure for Israeli wars in Gaza between 2012 and 2022, which averaged 40% civilian casualties. I'd hardly describe their previous wars as 'humane' but the dramatic escalation in violence against civilians is striking and needs explanation.

It might be the case that their escalating violence will finally force major world powers (especially the US) to stop funding and arming them, but you can hardly say this is the deliberate strategy of Netanyahu et al, more just a (possible) outcome of them finally going too far.
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Similarly there is a recent statistical data of ratio of civilians killed, including comparing of the Russia-Ukraine situation.

In Ukraine, the ratio is 1 in every 51 killed is a civilian.

In Gaza, the ratio is 9 in every 10 killed is a civilian.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
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Not the only one sardonic video by IDF. They are many they posted and they cherish it for the ‘likes’.

1. IDF changing a Gazan school into a gym and doing reps.
2. IDF singing the Jewish call to prayer in a Gazan mosque in place of the Islam call to prayer.
3. IDF bulldozing Gazan cars and laughing of it.
4. IDF trampling tanks with graveyard and desecrating the dead bodies including recent ones, for whatever reason.
5. IDF dancing on top of Gazan rubble.

There are various, makes one wonder if they are covert soldiers preferring to be invisible and low-profile, or soldiers for the ‘gram’ popularity.
 
Vic said:
Not in the Telegraph? It came up in a search but behind the paywall.
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Was that the Australian Telegraph?
From what I could see, it reported that decomposed bodies were found which conflicts with reports of a very recent massacre. I’m not trying to defend anything, just pointing out it’s not always a good idea to jump to conclusions. There’s no shortage of people on here telling us that everything that comes out of Israel is propaganda and I would say that works both ways.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I’m still trying to work out how people can support what Israel is doing, can anybody explain it to me?
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You can understand "never again" in relation to the Holocaust, but most people thought that was a call to the world not to let genocide happen again to anyone, not as a justification for genocide. That probably wasn't the original intent, which was a justification for Jewish violent resistance instead of the supposed passivity under the Nazis.

I suspect there may now be more opposition to a Holocaust Memorial in London (rather than just on the planning issues of, e.g., building it on parkland).

If international sympathy for Israel disappears, and that is clearly a generational issue - young people will prioritise what they see now rather than events of 80 years ago - then that may be the long-term "existential threat" to Israel rather than Hamas and the wording of its charter. That or civil war, as the far right dismantles democracy (the prospect of civil war was being aired - until 7th October).
 
Ducado said:
Do people not think the Americans are not worried about their strategic interests in the region? The longer this goes on the more they lose influence especially at street level this the stuff revolutions are made of, or greater instability in the region, there are worrying signs of other actors moving into the arena
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'Worrying signs of other actors moving into the arena'
Well the US have been a pretty malign actor in the region I'd say.
 
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