Milner [Merged]

[kp789]

We dont need Milner, we already have Johnson, Silva, Bellamy and SWP as wingers. Yaya, De Jong, Barry, Ireland, Viera, Johnson all centre midfielders. We already have sufficient depth.

 

[ono]

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

No you can't, that's entirely my point. We don't know how much of an influence he has on the sponsorships or merchandising of Villa. We don't know how much his replacement (which Villa will already have prepared) will cost, and whether the net gain between the fee we pay for Milner and the one they pay for his replacement, is enough to cover the shortfall that he leaves in sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

The Silva deal was cheap, purely because Valencia are screwed financially, so it was easier than all of the above, it was a bidding war. Torres will be the same.

Villa aren't financially fucked, and don't need to sell. This automatically raises the price of Milner. It's simple, let's say you love your house and someone came along and offered to buy it. Would you determine how much a similar house would cost you, then add on the price of that new car you wanted, then get a bit of money to pay your credit card bills? Or do you look at the house across the street and sell it for the same price?
On our side, let's say that you're a multi-billionaire. You want THAT particular house, not one like it, not one near it, THAT one. You need this as you believe that the land will complete a jigsaw for you, whereby you can spell your name from space or whatever. This person asks for £150,000 for a house whereby you know that a similar one went for £120,000. You don't walk away from the deal, you're a multi-billionaire, you just do it because you want THAT house.

Now, the big question. What is the value of the house?

The value of the house is the price that has been paid for it. This does not mean that the house across the road is now undervalued, or that your house was a rip off, as the circumstances were completely different on the sale of the two properties. Nobody will point to your house and expect to get the same, and you won't point to another persons house and say that they undervalued it.

When exactly do the comparisons end? Can we compare the price of Tevez to the price of Andy Cole? No, different times, different eras, different circumstances. Just as the Milner and Silva deals are within different circumstances.

People keep pointing to David Villa to Barcelona as a benchmark for worth, and it's daft. It has no bearing on what we pay for a player. Valencia were fucked, Villa has wanted to go to Barca his whole life, Barca aren't super billionaires. They set a price that was agreeable to all.

This doesn't mean that Ibra was overvalued at £80m or that Johnson was undervalued at £8m, it means absolutely nothing apart from that those two clubs found a mutually beneficial price with each other.

We will do the same with Villa about Milner.

I understand - the price/value of a player is all relative to their specific situation of either the individual involved or the team that owns him. I just believe we can get better value for better quality players from clubs who are in a different situation to Villa.

Aside from all that, £25m+ is a big outlay (granted, it's not for us) for a player who probably isn't going to improve us, considering our current midfield options. From my point of view, our problems last season stemmed from not having enough 'footballers' in the side, both centrally and in the full back positions. Milner doesn't aid with that problem in my opinion.

And i can't help but wonder what we'll have to pay for the next bright English talent that shows a little bit of form. As much as i understand that each and every transfer is different as each and every transfer has it's own set of circumstances, i can't help but think clubs are going to be looking at what we've paid for Lescott and what we'll probably pay for Milner and it will have a drastic effect when we come to buying English talent from a club who doesn't need to sell.

With the money that Everton received for Lescott, they went on and bought Heitinga, Bilyawhateverhisname is and Sylvain Distin. It made them stronger, and once they had a full side out they became pretty much the 2nd best team in the league over the 2nd half of the season. If we keep throwing silly money at our rivals for players who won't improve us, i can see a few more doing what Everton did last season, and over a period of time that will make our job much harder.

Those are my main worries.

 

[okstate99]

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

No you can't, that's entirely my point. We don't know how much of an influence he has on the sponsorships or merchandising of Villa. We don't know how much his replacement (which Villa will already have prepared) will cost, and whether the net gain between the fee we pay for Milner and the one they pay for his replacement, is enough to cover the shortfall that he leaves in sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

The Silva deal was cheap, purely because Valencia are screwed financially, so it was easier than all of the above, it was a bidding war. Torres will be the same.

Villa aren't financially fucked, and don't need to sell. This automatically raises the price of Milner. It's simple, let's say you love your house and someone came along and offered to buy it. Would you determine how much a similar house would cost you, then add on the price of that new car you wanted, then get a bit of money to pay your credit card bills? Or do you look at the house across the street and sell it for the same price?
On our side, let's say that you're a multi-billionaire. You want THAT particular house, not one like it, not one near it, THAT one. You need this as you believe that the land will complete a jigsaw for you, whereby you can spell your name from space or whatever. This person asks for £150,000 for a house whereby you know that a similar one went for £120,000. You don't walk away from the deal, you're a multi-billionaire, you just do it because you want THAT house.

Now, the big question. What is the value of the house?

The value of the house is the price that has been paid for it. This does not mean that the house across the road is now undervalued, or that your house was a rip off, as the circumstances were completely different on the sale of the two properties. Nobody will point to your house and expect to get the same, and you won't point to another persons house and say that they undervalued it.

When exactly do the comparisons end? Can we compare the price of Tevez to the price of Andy Cole? No, different times, different eras, different circumstances. Just as the Milner and Silva deals are within different circumstances.

People keep pointing to David Villa to Barcelona as a benchmark for worth, and it's daft. It has no bearing on what we pay for a player. Valencia were fucked, Villa has wanted to go to Barca his whole life, Barca aren't super billionaires. They set a price that was agreeable to all.

This doesn't mean that Ibra was overvalued at £80m or that Johnson was undervalued at £8m, it means absolutely nothing apart from that those two clubs found a mutually beneficial price with each other.

We will do the same with Villa about Milner.

Exactly. Its about making our squad better which he does.

 

[FinallyGamble]

Sod Milner. Get Johnno fit again. Lets actually use our youth.!

 

[ST Coleridge]

Milner and Ozil are two completely different players. You may as well tell your mate to buy Buffon instead of Milner.

Fair point, obviously. I just chose a player that would likely command a similar fee.

Your argument is very sound, it's just that it's based on Mancini really coveting Milner, while most here think he should go and covet someone else. I'm with you, I couldn't give a shit about 'value for money', or us geting 'ripped off'. Every deal will be viable, or they simply wouldn't do it - and it's not our money.

 

[Manc in London]

I remember hearing a rumour about two or three years ago, that I didn’t think was particularly interesting at the time, that Milner and Noble are big mates and they detest Michael Johnson. Not sure why they dislike him. I didn’t think much about it. However, I watched an England U21 game and on a number of occasions it was blatantly obvious that Noble and Milner were reluctant to pass to Johnson. On so many occasions Johnson was in excellent position but was ignored. Milner scored a 20-yard effort following some good work by Michael Johnson. Milner ignores Johnson to go and celebrate with Mark Noble and others. At around the same time, Johnson was playing for us against West Ham at our place. Noble has a nibble at Johnson and later on scythes him down, a shocking challenge that resulted in Noble being sent-off. It was obviously pre-meditated.

Maybe it’s nonsense. Regardless I am sure it won’t be an issue.

The whole Johnson injury-saga is sad because I am convinced that had he stayed fit he would be a superior player to Milner and would have gone to the world cup. I have rarely witnessed such a young midfielder play with such authority and calm, as well as ability, in the top-flight in England.

 

[Skip Donoghue]

Milner and Ozil are two completely different players. You may as well tell your mate to buy Buffon instead of Milner.

Fair point, obviously. I just chose a player that would likely command a similar fee.

Your argument is very sound, it's just that it's based on Mancini really coveting Milner, while most here think he should go and covet someone else. I'm with you, I couldn't give a shit about 'value for money', or us geting 'ripped off'. Every deal will be viable, or they simply wouldn't do it - and it's not our money.

the problem is to many fans want the so called flair players the likes of Ozil, Scnieder etc who would probably cost around the same as milner and are probably technically better than Milner, but we would be taking a gamble on these players having never played in the EPL, settling down in this country, really wanting to play for us etc so many variables

we have purchased this type of player in Silva (which may or may not work i think he is better than the 2 i have mentioned by the way) so now we need players to compliment him and milner is that type of player a grafter, tough, knows the league inside out is the right side of 25, can play multiple positions and a full england international
it takes all types to make a wining team and the likes of Milner are crucial when it comes to just that ask the the rags about Fletcher and Hargreaves the ones with any sense any way (hard to find i know usually older than 35 helps) and they will tell you they are just as important to the team as your rooneys etc

if we get milner at £30million for me it will be a bargain and if we do get him i will bet a pound to a penny he will be our biggest success story of next season

 

[macmanson]

if we get milner at £30million for me it will be a bargain and if we do get him i will bet a pound to a penny he will be our biggest success story of next season

£30million for a 24 year old who has yet to really prove himself a bargain? No way that Milner becomes the biggest success story at City next season. The success or failure of Yaya or Silva will be a far bigger story then what Milner does on the field.

I also think even if Milner does come here he will be seen as having taken a step backwards and I see Mancini using him as part of a combative 3 man midfield with 2 of Barry, Yaya or DeJong with someone like a Silva/AJ or possibly Ireland playing just in front and behind 2 strikers. He plays a similar role for England with his most impressive stat for them being the sheer number of tackles.

 

[Pam]

You all keep overlooking the stupid England factor in all this. People are spot on when they say we could do much better if we went abroad. Of course Milner isn't as good as the likes of Sneider and Ozil, but they aren't English.

 

[Rammyblues]

IMO if Milner signs he will play, might be at the expense of AJ.



In a 4312


Yaya NDJ Milner

Silva

Ade Tevez.