Milner [Merged]

[franksven]

IMO a one season wonder that (at best) would be an average performer in our team and at the price they are alleged to be looking for, a total no,no

£15M maybe then we may be able to say we got some value, but anything over that we have been ripped (once again)

And we will continue to get ripped while we have money.

 

[Blue Coop]

Lescott when fit is our best defender, followed by Kompany. If them 2 can stay fit then we really do have a quality centre-back pairing. We just need some good full-backs.

As for Milner, i don't think we need him now we have Yaya.

 

[alera]

THe simple fact is for over £22 million cash or £15 million + Ireland + Nedum most city fans would rather not sign him at all. I dont actually know anyone that thinks he would be a good signing for that sort of deal.

Either being signed for the bench / cover or Dejong could end up getting sold. No thanks he can stay at Villa.

£24 million cash I can just about live with, his real world value is around £15 million with us not involved, any involvement of our decentish frindge players is completely unacceptable.

I have high hopes its complete bullshit, they tried to sign Dunne as part of the Barry deal last year and we said no it had to be handled seperately, if these players come out in public and say they no longer want to play for city and put in a written transfer request fine, they can then be sold to the highest bidder with some tactics involved.

 

[Damocles]

I have explained this on two previous occasion, but I personally think that Milner would be a good signing for anything under £60m.

Also, now I come to mention it, how exactly are you determining his 'value' at £15m? Villa paid £12m for him a few season ago and he's a far better player. How much of a dent will it make in the momentum of the team? Will it possibly cost them places? What about the homegrown rule? How much does he make Villa in merchandising? What will the sponsors think of the deal? Will the value of the club and it's marketability weigh up against a potential transfer fee? How much will his replacement cost? What are the cost projections on season ticket sales for losing Milner?

Unless you can truthfully and knowledgeably answer all of these questions, you don't have a clue how much his 'value' is, and what you are doing, is basically posting random numbers.

Transfer values are not comparable across different sales and players. Anyway, his 'value' is whatever we pay for it, you are describing his worth. I say his value to us will be anything under £60m, because I fully believe that we have £300m warchest to play with, as that's what's been stated on numerous occasions in the press. £60m represents 20% of our budget this summer, which for a player of Milner's potential, and the potential added benefit to the team, I believe is a good deal.

In non-City terms, it would be like Spurs paying £12m for him, based on a £60m budget this summer. Again though, I don't know whether or not that is a good deal, as I'm not as acquainted with the Spurs squads/reserves/youth as I am with City.

 

[ono]

I have explained this on two previous occasion, but I personally think that Milner would be a good signing for anything under £60m.

Also, now I come to mention it, how exactly are you determining his 'value' at £15m? Villa paid £12m for him a few season ago and he's a far better player. How much of a dent will it make in the momentum of the team? Will it possibly cost them places? What about the homegrown rule? How much does he make Villa in merchandising? What will the sponsors think of the deal? Will the value of the club and it's marketability weigh up against a potential transfer fee? How much will his replacement cost? What are the cost projections on season ticket sales for losing Milner?

Unless you can truthfully and knowledgeably answer all of these questions, you don't have a clue how much his 'value' is, and what you are doing, is basically posting random numbers.

Transfer values are not comparable across different sales and players. Anyway, his 'value' is whatever we pay for it, you are describing his worth.

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

 

[LoveCity]

How is Milner a one season wonder when he's improved each season to the level he reached last season?

Also, people point out the World Cup but England were wank and Milner had the best individual performance of anyone in the team.

People are being jaded by the price, understandably, but Milner will bring something Silva and even Toure won't, an understanding of the Premier League, an ability to adapt to each Premier League environment, from the big match to the cold away nights in Stoke.

He would be no glamour signing but would be a very good player for us, possibly for years to come. Yes, he isn't worth the price thrown around but if we keep him for years and he performs then people will not complain about what we pay for him.

He is also one of the poster boys of English football in the coming years along with Joe Hart and Adam Johnson, so it gives us the foundation of homegrown players in addition to our foreign superstars.

 

[Damocles]

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

No you can't, that's entirely my point. We don't know how much of an influence he has on the sponsorships or merchandising of Villa. We don't know how much his replacement (which Villa will already have prepared) will cost, and whether the net gain between the fee we pay for Milner and the one they pay for his replacement, is enough to cover the shortfall that he leaves in sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

The Silva deal was cheap, purely because Valencia are screwed financially, so it was easier than all of the above, it was a bidding war. Torres will be the same.

Villa aren't financially fucked, and don't need to sell. This automatically raises the price of Milner. It's simple, let's say you love your house and someone came along and offered to buy it. Would you determine how much a similar house would cost you, then add on the price of that new car you wanted, then get a bit of money to pay your credit card bills? Or do you look at the house across the street and sell it for the same price?
On our side, let's say that you're a multi-billionaire. You want THAT particular house, not one like it, not one near it, THAT one. You need this as you believe that the land will complete a jigsaw for you, whereby you can spell your name from space or whatever. This person asks for £150,000 for a house whereby you know that a similar one went for £120,000. You don't walk away from the deal, you're a multi-billionaire, you just do it because you want THAT house.

Now, the big question. What is the value of the house?

The value of the house is the price that has been paid for it. This does not mean that the house across the road is now undervalued, or that your house was a rip off, as the circumstances were completely different on the sale of the two properties. Nobody will point to your house and expect to get the same, and you won't point to another persons house and say that they undervalued it.

When exactly do the comparisons end? Can we compare the price of Tevez to the price of Andy Cole? No, different times, different eras, different circumstances. Just as the Milner and Silva deals are within different circumstances.

People keep pointing to David Villa to Barcelona as a benchmark for worth, and it's daft. It has no bearing on what we pay for a player. Valencia were fucked, Villa has wanted to go to Barca his whole life, Barca aren't super billionaires. They set a price that was agreeable to all.

This doesn't mean that Ibra was overvalued at £80m or that Johnson was undervalued at £8m, it means absolutely nothing apart from that those two clubs found a mutually beneficial price with each other.

We will do the same with Villa about Milner.

 

[macmanson]

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

No you can't, that's entirely my point. We don't know how much of an influence he has on the sponsorships or merchandising of Villa. We don't know how much his replacement (which Villa will already have prepared) will cost, and whether the net gain between the fee we pay for Milner and the one they pay for his replacement, is enough to cover the shortfall that he leaves in sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

The Silva deal was cheap, purely because Valencia are screwed financially, so it was easier than all of the above, it was a bidding war. Torres will be the same.

Villa aren't financially fucked, and don't need to sell. This automatically raises the price of Milner. It's simple, let's say you love your house and someone came along and offered to buy it. Would you determine how much a similar house would cost you, then add on the price of that new car you wanted, then get a bit of money to pay your credit card bills? Or do you look at the house across the street and sell it for the same price?
On our side, let's say that you're a multi-billionaire. You want THAT particular house, not one like it, not one near it, THAT one. You need this as you believe that the land will complete a jigsaw for you, whereby you can spell your name from space or whatever. This person asks for £150,000 for a house whereby you know that a similar one went for £120,000. You don't walk away from the deal, you're a multi-billionaire, you just do it because you want THAT house.

Now, the big question. What is the value of the house?

The value of the house is the price that has been paid for it. This does not mean that the house across the road is now undervalued, or that your house was a rip off, as the circumstances were completely different on the sale of the two properties. Nobody will point to your house and expect to get the same, and you won't point to another persons house and say that they undervalued it.

When exactly do the comparisons end? Can we compare the price of Tevez to the price of Andy Cole? No, different times, different eras, different circumstances. Just as the Milner and Silva deals are within different circumstances.

People keep pointing to David Villa to Barcelona as a benchmark for worth, and it's daft. It has no bearing on what we pay for a player. Valencia were fucked, Villa has wanted to go to Barca his whole life, Barca aren't super billionaires. They set a price that was agreeable to all.

This doesn't mean that Ibra was overvalued at £80m or that Johnson was undervalued at £8m, it means absolutely nothing apart from that those two clubs found a mutually beneficial price with each other.

We will do the same with Villa about Milner.

I agree with the arguments that you make, but I think most people just don't agree that we need Milner. It's obvious that Milner wants to leave and come to us, so we are the club in superior bargaining position and not Villa.

We shouldn't pay anything more than the orgininal £20m that was submitted as that is already at the ceiling of what he is worth to our team. If he doesn't come, then we are no worse off.

Besides, if you wouldn't mind paying up to £60m for him, I say we just leave him at Villa until X-mas or next summer. If he repeats his performance and his price goes up, we're still in the range you feel he's worth. If he doesn't then we can get him for significantly less than we'd pay for him now.

 

[ST Coleridge]

I understand where you're coming from, but surely you can gauge his value by comparing him and his probable price to midfielders of a similar standard. By similar standard i mean players of similar international standings in similar standard international teams, and players who have had similar impact on their respective leagues....again of similar value. You can also take age into consideration.

With that in mind, i can't see how anyone can make a case for us paying anything more than £20m for him. I don't need to be a financial forecaster for Aston Villa to realise he isn't worth anywhere near the amounts mentioned in the press.

No you can't, that's entirely my point. We don't know how much of an influence he has on the sponsorships or merchandising of Villa. We don't know how much his replacement (which Villa will already have prepared) will cost, and whether the net gain between the fee we pay for Milner and the one they pay for his replacement, is enough to cover the shortfall that he leaves in sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

The Silva deal was cheap, purely because Valencia are screwed financially, so it was easier than all of the above, it was a bidding war. Torres will be the same.

Villa aren't financially fucked, and don't need to sell. This automatically raises the price of Milner. It's simple, let's say you love your house and someone came along and offered to buy it. Would you determine how much a similar house would cost you, then add on the price of that new car you wanted, then get a bit of money to pay your credit card bills? Or do you look at the house across the street and sell it for the same price?
On our side, let's say that you're a multi-billionaire. You want THAT particular house, not one like it, not one near it, THAT one. You need this as you believe that the land will complete a jigsaw for you, whereby you can spell your name from space or whatever. This person asks for £150,000 for a house whereby you know that a similar one went for £120,000. You don't walk away from the deal, you're a multi-billionaire, you just do it because you want THAT house.

Now, the big question. What is the value of the house?

The value of the house is the price that has been paid for it. This does not mean that the house across the road is now undervalued, or that your house was a rip off, as the circumstances were completely different on the sale of the two properties. Nobody will point to your house and expect to get the same, and you won't point to another persons house and say that they undervalued it.

When exactly do the comparisons end? Can we compare the price of Tevez to the price of Andy Cole? No, different times, different eras, different circumstances. Just as the Milner and Silva deals are within different circumstances.

People keep pointing to David Villa to Barcelona as a benchmark for worth, and it's daft. It has no bearing on what we pay for a player. Valencia were fucked, Villa has wanted to go to Barca his whole life, Barca aren't super billionaires. They set a price that was agreeable to all.

This doesn't mean that Ibra was overvalued at £80m or that Johnson was undervalued at £8m, it means absolutely nothing apart from that those two clubs found a mutually beneficial price with each other.

We will do the same with Villa about Milner.

As a friend of the multi-billionaire, I would advise him that the house he wants so badly is, in fact, shit. He wants to spell his name from space, but I think he should be buying houses that form the outline of the face of our Lord Christ.

Hence, with this in mind, I beseech him to buy another house altogether, a Turkish/German design-hybrid which can be purchased for a lesser fee.

 

[Damocles]

Milner and Ozil are two completely different players. You may as well tell your mate to buy Buffon instead of Milner.