Mourinho or Mancini

[Latics Fan SJK]

OK. I understand the argument. But as my unqualified view is that Jose's going back to Chelsea, what then?

Very simple for me. If City can convince Pep, Klopp, or Mourinho to join us they should do just that. If none of those three are gettable then Mancini stays in situ by default. My biggest fear about that is that because of our appalling showing in the CL this season, we're going to get another murderous group next season. I have fuck all faith in Mancini to get us through, and if he doesn't then you can repeat the tough group predicament ad infinitum ... along with the loss of revenues from that.

We had about the toughest group possible and so I think you're being a little harsh. Having said that, the two Ajax games were poor and the late 2 at RM quite a disaster.

I can understand the disappointing domestic form but now it's time to kick on and go for the double. For me, no trophy = no Mancini come June. Just how it is for us now, CL money and trophies, nothing else will do. But it's impossible to say another manager would have done better, that's just guess work on your part, in my view.

Of course it's only guesswork. However, it's guesswork based on one's credentials against another. Mourinho has a fantastic CL record, winning it with two different clubs, both of which had inferior squads than what Mancini, who incidentally has a poor record in Europe on the whole, has at his disposal at City.

Obviously, nothing is certain and he may well have not managed City to the KO rounds but it's logical guesswork and understandable.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty reasonable post, what sticking with Mancini for the next 2 seasons then go for Mourinho after his 2 year stunt at PSG I'm pretty certain that's where he'll end up for next season..

You really don't understand Mourinho if you think he's motivated by money. More chance Mancini ends up there on the basis that Mancini was discussing moving to Monaco last season. Mourinho to PSG is a fanciful notion IMO.

 

[coleridge]

I think all managerial quirks are forgiven if you're winning (well, unless your managing Madrid). For me personally the PL was a no brainer. The squad we started last season with was ridiculously good and streets ahead of United's and Chelsea's. Europe was always going to be a challenge, and Mancini's challenge was to find a way to balance his squad to get the best out of them in both competitions. He failed last season but we were flying in the league so it sort of mitigated that at the time, but I think the unspoken feeling for some was "next season will have to be an improvement". We actually went backwards as I don't think we played nearly as well this season as we did against Bayern and Napoli last season.

Respect to those who feel Mancini will improve in the years to come and could one day be a managerial great up there alongside the likes of Mourinho. Personally I don't think City, in the phase we're at in our development, should be a testing groung for anyone. As you say MSP, we need results both domestically and in Europe now both for financial and profile reasons. Being Europe's richest club on paper but having zero CL pedigree will get us laughed at when we try to sign the best players.

Pretty reasonable post, what sticking with Mancini for the next 2 seasons then go for Mourinho after his 2 year stunt at PSG I'm pretty certain that's where he'll end up for next season..

2 reasonable posts but (1) not sure Jose is ever coming and (2) almost certain that Bobby's only got until the end of this season to prove his worth to the Sheikh. In both regards, our views are irrelevant, I'm afraid!

 

[Braggster]

Pretty reasonable post, what sticking with Mancini for the next 2 seasons then go for Mourinho after his 2 year stunt at PSG I'm pretty certain that's where he'll end up for next season..

You really don't understand Mourinho if you think he's motivated by money. More chance Mancini ends up there on the basis that Mancini was discussing moving to Monaco last season. Mourinho to PSG is a fanciful notion IMO.

Mmmm..I do think he is motivated by money to some degree. Not for its own sake, perhaps, but as an indication of his importance and status (fair enough really).

Assuming he does leave Madrid in the summer, and assuming he wants to walk straight into another job, where does he go if not to PSG (and I agree with you that he probably doesn't want to do that)? I think he really wants the United job, but I don't think he'll get it because I think taggart will stay in post for yet another year. So who does that leave, if not PSG? Chelsea? Doubtful that he'd go back IMO. City? Not sure he fancies another "no tradition" billionaire's plaything (note: what he would think, not what I think) and also I'm by no means sure he is what we - especially Ferran and Txiki - would be looking for.

So where does he end up? Is it PSG, or does he take a year out and hang, like a sword of Damocles, over every manager of a big club in Europe? Thinking about it, I reckon that would appeal to him enormously.

 

[Anonymous]

I can understand the disappointing domestic form but now it's time to kick on and go for the double. For me, no trophy = no Mancini come June. Just how it is for us now, CL money and trophies, nothing else will do. But it's impossible to say another manager would have done better, that's just guess work on your part, in my view.

It's not about saying another manager would have done better, that's irrelevant and unprovable. The question is has Mancini done good enough to be given another summer, a hefty transfer budget as I suspect we will have just that come the summer, and another crack at the CL. For me he needs to win the league to ensure that. And even then I envisage a scenario where he could be sacked in favour of Guardiola. Time will tell I suppose.

I take on board the "tough group" argument, but it falls down immediately because our objective, at the bare minimum, was 6 points off Ajax and then we'll see how the group shapes up in the head to heads between the three so called better teams. We didn't even get there - that failure is very bad in my book and one which I personally think will ultimately cost Mancini his job.

 

[coleridge]

I can understand the disappointing domestic form but now it's time to kick on and go for the double. For me, no trophy = no Mancini come June. Just how it is for us now, CL money and trophies, nothing else will do. But it's impossible to say another manager would have done better, that's just guess work on your part, in my view.

It's not about saying another manager would have done better, that's irrelevant and unprovable. The question is has Mancini done good enough to be given another summer, a hefty transfer budget as I suspect we will have just that come the summer, and another crack at the CL. For me he needs to win the league to ensure that. And even then I envisage a scenario where he could be sacked in favour of Guardiola. Time will tell I suppose.

I take on board the "tough group" argument, but it falls down immediately because our objective, at the bare minimum, was 6 points off Ajax and then we'll see how the group shapes up in the head to heads between the three so called better teams. We didn't even get there - that failure is very bad in my book and one which I personally think will ultimately cost Mancini his job.

We seem to be agreeing, down to the Ajax 6 points. A strange day! I would like Bobby to stay for years but what you say seems more like the owners' view and I have thought Pep has been favourite for some time. If Jose goes to OT, then BM will truly go into meltdown and that will be the funniest day ever on here, trust me!

 

[Anonymous]

Mmmm..I do think he is motivated by money to some degree. Not for its own sake, perhaps, but as an indication of his importance and status (fair enough really).

Totally ... what I meant was Mourinho isn't going to manage PSG anymore than he's going to go manage in Russia because some billionaires got the loose change to give him the biggest contract ever. Mourinho's ego dictates he comes back to England having achieved his goal of winning the league in Italy and Spain (which is what he set out to do when he left Chelsea and what he's talked about since his Porto days).

Assuming he does leave Madrid in the summer, and assuming he wants to walk straight into another job, where does he go if not to PSG (and I agree with you that he probably doesn't want to do that)? I think he really wants the United job, but I don't think he'll get it because I think taggart will stay in post for yet another year. So who does that leave, if not PSG? Chelsea? Doubtful that he'd go back IMO. City? Not sure he fancies another "no tradition" billionaire's plaything (note: what he would think, not what I think) and also I'm by no means sure he is what we - especially Ferran and Txiki - would be looking for.

So where does he end up? Is it PSG, or does he take a year out and hang, like a sword of Damocles, over every manager of a big club in Europe? Thinking about it, I reckon that would appeal to him enormously.

Taking a year out is possible for him definitely, and it will depend upon what jobs are available. But I could make compelling arguments for Chelsea, United, and City, dispensing with whoever's in charge to give Mourinho the job.

I want to focus on City though because that's our club. Its an interesting argument that's been put forward many many times, that because of having Ferran and Txiki in charge, it completely rules out Mourinho. Personally I think that's a bit of a stretch. Those guys came close to giving Mourinho the Barcelona job - that's not the actions of two people who hate or don't rate a manager. The fact is that Pep was the better fit at that time, for that club, and as such it was probably a relatively easy decision to make in the end. But if you interview a guy for a job, it's because you're considering him. Add to that the fact that we're just a completely different club at a completely different stage in our development to what Barcelona were then. Just because Mourinho then wasn't right for Barca, doesn't automatically equate he isn't right for us now.

On the point you make about us being a billionaires play thing or a club with "no tradition", I personally put little stock in that. I suspect Mourinho's biggest requirement is going to be control of the first team and transfer funds. He is more likely to get that at City than he is at United, or at Chelsea for the simple reason that we're a fucking well run club with excellent owners who sit back and let the professionals do their job. At United he'll have Slur Alex looking over his shoulder from the executive seats, and the constant wondering of whether the Glazers are going to sell, or indeed invest in the club. At Chelsea he has the same problems he had first time round vis a vis Roman wanting to pick the players he wants to buy. That's not to say I can't see him ending up back there or at United - just that there's arguments on both sides for where he goes next.

The truth is he will come back to England next IMO. It seems fated, which I know is a weird thing to say, but the love affair he had with England and England had with him, he hasn't been able to recreate in Italy or Spain. His ego needs England just as much as certain clubs in England covet him.<br /><br />-- Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:13 pm --<br /><br />

We seem to be agreeing, down to the Ajax 6 points. A strange day! I would like Bobby to stay for years but what you say seems more like the owners' view and I have thought Pep has been favourite for some time. If Jose goes to OT, then BM will truly go into meltdown and that will be the funniest day ever on here, trust me!

My kid brother, although a rag, is much more circumspect in his opinions on football than I am ... he has been saying to me for the last couple of months that he thinks next season Pep and Mourinho will be resuming hostilities in Manchester with Mou at $old Trafford and Pep at the Etihad. I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[coleridge]

Yep. Pep for us and Mou at OT seem the most probable.

Although I try not to listen, I heard Fergie say something about there being no successor. Sounded like he was being told to go to this cynical mind.

Still think you are all being harsh on Bobby though. Maybe the Sheikh will be as well. I'll be sad to see him go...

 

[coleridge]

Clarification. I still think Jose will go to Chelsea but him turning up at OT wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Yep. Pep for us and Mou at OT seem the most probable.

Although I try not to listen, I heard Fergie say something about there being no successor. Sounded like he was being told to go to this cynical mind.

Still think you are all being harsh on Bobby though. Maybe the Sheikh will be as well. I'll be sad to see him go...

Well I think bobby Charlton reduced the chances of mourinho going to old Trafford hugely in an interview last month where he basically said that he was not the right kind of man for the old Trafford job. Charlton is an important player at ot and I dont think he'd have said that without insider knowledge of the club's thinking.

I've said many times on here that I don't believe ot would suit mourinho either. He's too much of an individual and he won't want to step into ferguson's shoes. For me I believe his number one choice would be city and I think he made that known last month when Madrid came to town. There are few better jobs in the world, let alone England, because of the enormous and unfulfilled potential the sheikh's money has given the club.

The big question is whether there is a vacancy( I think there's a high chance there will be) and whether pep is first choice