Nasri and the 'Quenelle'

[ayrshire_blue]

is it really a "well known offensive gesture" ? or is a gesture that some people have "interpreted as "offensive" ?

I'm not offended by the Nazi salute, personally. But it's a well known offensive gesture. In France, this appears to be a similar case with the quenelle. I'm not arguing whether it is anti semetic or not, I'm just saying it's probably best not to do it, especially since it seems to be getting plenty of media attention across the water.

From what I understand, it is zionist groups and some french politcians who are calling it offensive.

the person who invented this gesture said that it's nothing offensive, so why should we inteprete it as offensive?

Ok. So why are people doing it at synagogues and other Jewish places of interest if it's not meant to be offensive?

I hadn't heard of it until Saturday. But now I know that it's an issue and is causing controversy I'm not about to go to the nearest synagogue with a camera to do it myself.

Nasri knew it was an issue, and was causing some sort of controversy in France, and while he didn't do it at a synagogue, he probably should have thought better and just not bothered doing it at all??<br /><br />-- Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:40 am --<br /><br />

Regardless of their intention the mere fact it can be interpreted as offensive should tell both Nasri and Anelka to stay well clear of it.

Stick to that butterfly thingy in future Nic.

This is all I'm basically trying to say. I love Nasri, he's a blue, but he's been a bit daft. I hope his apology is the last of it.

Bed time for me, I'll leave you guys to it!!

 

[bretonblue]

I disagree. I was asking the question as to why an Algerian or Moroccan in France could justify hating Jews because of the existence of Israel. Something which had absolutely no impact on them. I can certainly understand why someone who was directly affected would. It was a very apt comparison. Do Catholics attack Protestants in France or the USA because of the situation in Northern Ireland? Because Marvin (a poster I have huge respect for by the way) suggested that Arabs might be entitled to do the same to Jews because of Israel.

Get all that PB. It was the the sentence I emboldened in your original post that caused me a problem:


" it was plain-old fashioned European/Christian Jew hatred"


I hope you can understand why.

Same for me... implying historically Christians hate Jews...

Yes, that statement is Anti-Christian and offensive.

And Hitler was no Christian.

 

[regista]

I'm not offended by the Nazi salute, personally. But it's a well known offensive gesture. In France, this appears to be a similar case with the quenelle. I'm not arguing whether it is anti semetic or not, I'm just saying it's probably best not to do it, especially since it seems to be getting plenty of media attention across the water.

From what I understand, it is zionist groups and some french politcians who are calling it offensive.

the person who invented this gesture said that it's nothing offensive, so why should we inteprete it as offensive?

Ok. So why are people doing it at synagogues and other Jewish places of interest if it's not meant to be offensive?

I hadn't heard of it until Saturday. But now I know that it's an issue and is causing controversy I'm not about to go to the nearest synagogue with a camera to do it myself.

Nasri knew it was an issue, and was causing some sort of controversy in France, and while he didn't do it at a synagogue, he probably should have thought better and just not bothered doing it at all??

I suppose that initially it was being performed in normal places but then then some anti-semites started doing it in the wrong places i.e. synagos and graves, that's when some politicians and groups started to interprete it as "anti-semetic".

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I disagree. I was asking the question as to why an Algerian or Moroccan in France could justify hating Jews because of the existence of Israel. Something which had absolutely no impact on them. I can certainly understand why someone who was directly affected would. It was a very apt comparison. Do Catholics attack Protestants in France or the USA because of the situation in Northern Ireland? Because Marvin (a poster I have huge respect for by the way) suggested that Arabs might be entitled to do the same to Jews because of Israel.

Get all that PB. It was the the sentence I emboldened in your original post that caused me a problem:


" it was plain-old fashioned European/Christian Jew hatred"


I hope you can understand why.

Same for me... implying historically Christians hate Jews...

Sorry - I wasn't implying that all Christians hate Jews, just making the point that, historically, the church was behind much of the anti-semitism found in Western Europe in medieval times. Martin Luther was particularly and demonstrably anti-Semitic. Each Crusade usually started with a massacre of Jews somewhere.

 

[Bluekiwi]

Surprise surprise, this picture has surfaced now, in the heat of the Anelka scandal.

What is wrong with that gesture? How many soccer players place their hands in a similar position when their national anthem is played at international games.
People need to grow a pair and stop being so thin skinned - this PC stuff all started when Noddy and BigEars were called 'gays'

 

[adorado30]

I'm neither french or jewish and that is why I wouldn't get involved with gestures.

What happened to the jewish folk during the war was beyond horrific and the last thing anyone should do is mock that oart of history.

My job doesn't allow me to have publuc opinions know matter how strong I feel about them, Samir is in the same boat and should remember that.

Very silly.

Hope he doesn't get banned as I like the guy.

Do you really think this is what Anelka was doing, mocking the victims of the holocaust?

He was clearly supporting someone who has both made anti-semitic remarks and actively encourages & supports Holocaust deniers like Faurisson. That doesn't necessarily make Anelka anti-semitic but he should be told to keep his private opinions private and away from football.

Do you think that Anelka and Nasri should be banned for supporting someone who has made anti-semitic remarks ??

You see such things unfortunately alot these days. They are plenty of Serbian professionals players, one of them Djokovic the tennis superstar raising the 3 fingers salute. With that, they are/were clearly supporting certain war crime individuals who were held responsible during the 90's for the worst atrocities in the Balkans since the Holocaust. Btw none, of them were banned from their sports. Lots of people, dont know about the 3 finger salute, as many didn't know about the quenelle. However, such things are offensive to certain races. Where do you draw the line in such instances ?

 

[sir baconface]

my dads jewish......i personaly find nasris choice of head where more offensive

Was waitíng for someone to comment. He looks like the product of a liaison between Kevin the teenager and the man in the old Milk Tray advert.

On a more serious note I hope Nasri's apology will suffice. The gesture didn't appear to be for public consumption. Anelka, on the other hand, deliberately did it in front of a wide audience. Presumably as a pre-planned statement.

Most of these goal celebrations are total naff anyway. Hearts, rocking babies, etc. Don't they realise what tits they look? But adding politics and/or racism to the mix is something we can do without.

 

[johnmc]

Nasri can't get a ban because of that. Not related to football. If the authorities want to question him then fine.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

There is a school of thought that suggests that the raised right arm salute adopted by the nazis originated after Emperor Constantine decided to convert the Roman Empire to Christianity .
The story goes that the military legions of the roman armies were to be baptized en masse in the waters of the river Tiber in Rome but because of a deep suspicion and uneducated superstition the soldiers kept their sword holding right hands above the water so they would not be affected by the Christian ceremony therefore preserving their pre-Christian beliefs.
Far from being anti Jewish , it was actually anti Christian and indeed just the product of superstition and ignorance so was ideal for the nazis.
Just a thought!

 

[citymad]

Been said before. Stupid thread. Beats me why any city fan would start a negative thread that the media can feed on. Free speech and all that but some people just want to stir and become famous. Personally I wouldn't dream of starting a thread up that would cause city to seen in a bad light. We have enough shit newspapers starting up trouble without our own fans adding to it. Nothing positive comes out of it.


Edit: I realize I'm contributing by posting but there's no other way to vent my discust. I'm hoping the mods will delete this rubbish.