NATO, Get the F@#k Out...

[west didsblue]

Im struggling to see what any of this has to do with NATO. NATO is a defence pact between countries, nothing more. what some member states do is the member states doing it, not NATO. There are 0 Nato bases in Africa, there are however US bases in Africa.

Its the same level of argument that was had around Brexit. where people quoted random MP's ( or ex MP's ) from EU countries saying something inflammatory and stating it as "the EU says"

If you look at who started the thread you’ll realise that trying to link this to NATO is absolutely fucking pointless because there is no link, because of his fundamental misunderstanding of what NATO actually is. The fool also thinks that the ECOWAS trading bloc is an African version of NATO so I’d ignore anything he says. I have previously made the mistake of engaging with him but it’s a fruitless exercise that always ends up with ludicrous gratuitous insults.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Im struggling to see what any of this has to do with NATO. NATO is a defence pact between countries, nothing more. what some member states do is the member states doing it, not NATO. There are 0 Nato bases in Africa, there are however US bases in Africa.

Its the same level of argument that was had around Brexit. where people quoted random MP's ( or ex MP's ) from EU countries saying something inflammatory and stating it as "the EU says".

I think you’ll find that the OP is more of a ‘strong man’ supporter and the likes of Trump, Putin, Xi, etc. are very much in their thoughts while the more liberal western leaders, ie. NATO, need to be brought down.

Just another way of framing the same old narrative. He‘ll be on here soon calling everybody a neo-something or other, that’s if he’s not too busy trawling through paranoid claptrap.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I think you’ll find that the OP is more of a ‘strong man’ supporter and the likes of Trump, Putin, Xi, etc. are very much in their thoughts while the more liberal western leaders, ie. NATO, need to be brought down.

Just another way of framing the same old narrative. He‘ll be on here soon calling everybody a neo-something or other, that’s if he’s not too busy trawling through paranoid claptrap.

It's a rather incoherent view, he sees things through a racial politics lens and despite championing the rights of African-Americans he'll side with strongmen in Africa who want to weaken rights of their citizens.

Very strange for someone who has expressed sympathy for Pan-Africanism. An idealistic but fatally flawed worldview that neglects the fact plenty of African ethnic groups hate eachother without any encouragement from the West or China/Russia.

Often motivated by grievances from past conflicts or from being under the thumb and of lower social standing than the ethnic rivals.

Don't think he has said anything about the fact that just like the West, China also exports small arms and military vehicles to the continent. Weapons that can easily be used to carry out oppression, ethnic cleansing or genocide.

 

[Rascal]

I have long been a NATO Sceptic,

The goal of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization used to be, as its first secretary general, Lord Ismay, phrased it, "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down. Nowadays NATO gives America a reason to be in Europe and use its influence to dictate European defence policy and NATO is now as much a cover for American imperial ambition as it is about European defence. I also believe that as long as NATO exists then nuclear weapons have a reason to exist and as a long time supporter of CND that does not equate with my views.

During the Brexit debate a lot of time and money was spent on ridiculing an EU armed force, the cynic in me wonders why? Is it because NATO serves the interests of Capital and by definition the corporate interests of American corporations. Why else would a defence alliance be used as a cover for foreign wars of exploitation.

 

[the blue panther]

What is the lesser of 2 evils? Stay in Nato, or do a brexit equivalent and isolate ourselves again? That's what the OP comments amount to, I think.

Tonight, news is of Russia and China, combining further with India, Brazil and South Africa and to weaken Western/Dollar influence. Seems to me that it is a dangerous time to start talking about weakening any alliance that is supportive of us.

In the meantime, we might be able to give Russia enough rope to hang itself; as it's influnce tries to spread further and further - especially in Africa - it's strength is stretched and weakened - and perhaps the greedy selfish tyrants who run numerous African countries for their own self engrandisement will one day be undermined. But, African politics... not really much point in going there, but, with the resources still available to be plundered, Putin - at least - will continue to try to push his influnce.

Worrying times at every turn. Not the time to leave NATO, imho.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I have long been a NATO Sceptic,

The goal of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization used to be, as its first secretary general, Lord Ismay, phrased it, "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down. Nowadays NATO gives America a reason to be in Europe and use its influence to dictate European defence policy and NATO is now as much a cover for American imperial ambition as it is about European defence. I also believe that as long as NATO exists then nuclear weapons have a reason to exist and as a long time supporter of CND that does not equate with my views.

During the Brexit debate a lot of time and money was spent on ridiculing an EU armed force, the cynic in me wonders why? Is it because NATO serves the interests of Capital and by definition the corporate interests of American corporations. Why else would a defence alliance be used as a cover for foreign wars of exploitation.

Is the biggest word in there ‘Capital’, as you’ve chosen to highlight it?

Always thought that a ‘Capitalist’ society, the western way, depends on the ability of individuals to be able to capitalise on their skills and as soon as people realise that they are going to be left behind, they move, and will look to other structures, like communist or authoritarian leaders, where they will feel they have a chance as ’we’re’ supposedly’All the same’.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I have long been a NATO Sceptic,

The goal of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization used to be, as its first secretary general, Lord Ismay, phrased it, "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down. Nowadays NATO gives America a reason to be in Europe and use its influence to dictate European defence policy and NATO is now as much a cover for American imperial ambition as it is about European defence. I also believe that as long as NATO exists then nuclear weapons have a reason to exist and as a long time supporter of CND that does not equate with my views.

During the Brexit debate a lot of time and money was spent on ridiculing an EU armed force, the cynic in me wonders why? Is it because NATO serves the interests of Capital and by definition the corporate interests of American corporations. Why else would a defence alliance be used as a cover for foreign wars of exploitation.

There is certainly a sense that NATO has lost its purpose or at least it's focus since the cold war ended. Up until 89 there was a clear enemy and goal, since then it does seem that it's the same old alliances under US direction but now being used to pursue wider US foreign policy goals rather than just collective defence against the USSR. It's also a fiscal convenience for many European states to rely on the US to pony up a huge defence budget for the continued protection of Europe.
As to the op's point about Africa, I doubt any nations involved out there (including china, Russia and NATO nations) are there for any reason other than to control, or prevent each other monopolising resources.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

There is certainly a sense that NATO has lost its purpose or at least it's focus since the cold war ended. Up until 89 there was a clear enemy and goal, since then it does seem that it's the same old alliances under US direction but now being used to pursue wider US foreign policy goals rather than just collective defence against the USSR. It's also a fiscal convenience for many European states to rely on the US to pony up a huge defence budget for the continued protection of Europe.
As to the op's point about Africa, I doubt any nations involved out there (including china, Russia and NATO nations) are there for any reason other than to control, or prevent each other monopolising resources.

As you know, it’s always been about control and as we don’t deal in certain industries, we cut our subsidies and allowed others to take that space.

Like anything, it’s all about the squeeze and without any industrial plan then it allows those that do to exploit any area that they want.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I have long been a NATO Sceptic,

The goal of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization used to be, as its first secretary general, Lord Ismay, phrased it, "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down. Nowadays NATO gives America a reason to be in Europe and use its influence to dictate European defence policy and NATO is now as much a cover for American imperial ambition as it is about European defence. I also believe that as long as NATO exists then nuclear weapons have a reason to exist and as a long time supporter of CND that does not equate with my views.

During the Brexit debate a lot of time and money was spent on ridiculing an EU armed force, the cynic in me wonders why? Is it because NATO serves the interests of Capital and by definition the corporate interests of American corporations. Why else would a defence alliance be used as a cover for foreign wars of exploitation.

Do you honestly think that if NATO ceased to exist then nuclear weapons would disappear? Anyone who supports CND is deluded imo, Putin and his ilk wouldn't think twice about using a nuclear weapon, if it could bring us to our knees, with no threat of retaliation.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Hahaha China and russia love Africans and want what is best for them. Will all end in tears with zero benefit to Africa except a select few bootlickers.

WW3 may well be a proxy war in Africa.

The Niger coup seems to have triggered US/Russia/China into protecting their interests there.