NATO

[flook]

Constant victories by the brave Ukrainians - every day brings news of more and more victories it seems with huge russian casualties and barely any mention of any ukranian losses aside from war crimes perpetrated against civilian targets. It seems that Russia can't even supply/ resource a conflict on its own border adequately so I don't believe they are capable of even making it across Ukraine, nevermind invading other countries while maintaining that occupation. It's clear that russian forces, morale and leadership is all a shambles that poses no wider threat - unless we are being fed bollocks of course.

The bit in bold is just untrue, there are regular posts from those with links identifying heavy losses on both sides, not just on the Russian side.

With regards your second argument, you're speaking now from a position where it has been made pretty clear that the red army isn't what the west feared, largely it seems as a result of the corruption within. Prior to the west intervention on the side of the VICTIM in this conflict, the probability of continued aggression from Russia against its former Soviet Union members was very real. Even now a capitulation from the west by removing support from Ukraine would mean that possibility would again be prominent, as the aggression would eventually prove successful

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Oh yeah, totally, you’re the only one who hates Neo-Nazis. What a trailblazer you are!

That was mostly my inference of what Bigga seemed to think was him alone. It is only a point of any value if everybody else likes neoNazis.

 

[Bigga]

Oh yeah, totally, you’re the only one who hates Neo-Nazis. What a trailblazer you are!

Willing to state it loudly and clearly, though.

Completely ducking the question with whatabboutery but just for fun…


Point to me the area of the Middle East occupied by “the west”.

Very weirdly to speak about 'whataboutery' as if it's a sidebar, something that's been happening for decades.

 

[domalino]

Willing to state it loudly and clearly, though.



Very weirdly to speak about 'whataboutery' as if it's a sidebar, something that's been happening for decades.

View attachment 70868

Yes, well done, you're willing to say what absolutely everyone else is willing to say. Truly you are a free thinker.


Sorry, I'm not seeing the occupied territory there. I'm seeing Turkish, Israeli, Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, Omani, Emirati territory controlled by their respective governments, not an invading force?

You haven't sunk to such pathetic depths that you're equating a country giving the US an airbase with Russia invading and occupying Ukraine are you?

 

[aguero93:20]

Whoa, how the hell did we get onto reparations from the 'West'?!? But yeah, sure, if only EVERY nation in the world paid reparations to EVERY nation they have also wronged throughout history. Russia would owe QUITE a few people, as would China, Japan, most of the League of Arab Nations, Turkey, Italy, Germany, France, Spain (especially!) Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, US, Brazil, Argentina, most of Africa to each other, Mongolia, Iran, I mean how far back in history do you want to go? What's the cut off point, the list is endless.

But in THIS instance, Russia has invaded Ukraine, completely unprovoked, committed atrocities and war crimes that amount to genocide. They owe Ukraine an international apology, acceptance of blame, reparations for damages, acknowldegment of Ukraine as a sovereign nation, akcnowledgement that they many or many not wish to join NATO and/or the EU, that they will not oppose such actions and generally sign a treaty announcing a non-aggression pact, but apparently NATO needs to pay reparations first for other conflicts for that to be justified?

We're not giving the Welsh any reparations, just so that's clear.

 

[flook]

I think both have been attempting to expand for some time and Ukraine is now effectively the new cold war frontier.

NATO has expanded by accepting applications for membership from sovereign countries, most (all?) of which are former soviet states or "allies". That alone should tell you something

Russian expansion has been via aggression towards weaker nations

Trying to compare the two just makes you look ridiculous

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

NATO has expanded by accepting applications for membership from sovereign countries, most (all?) of which are former soviet states or "allies". That alone should tell you something

Russian expansion has been via aggression towards weaker nations

Trying to compare the two just makes you look ridiculous

It doesn't really matter on what basis Russia/ NATO have expanded, just as me being a fool and you being so clever has no bearing on anything either. The expansion of both is a matter of fact - in opposite directions heading towards each other so destined to collide. I could reduce the argument to distances expanded to paint NATO as the aggressor, but that would make me a myopic idiot as well as ridiculous ;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

I thought of posting this PoV earlier, but thought it would fall on deaf ears.

That choice has been borne out on these pages.

Millions died so we are here in today's world including RUSSIANS fighting Nazi Germany.

It boggles my mind about NATO's involvement.

I would gently point out that around 8 million Ukrainians died during WWII. 2 million died on the front line.

When we talk about the losses the Soviet Union suffered during WWII that includes Ukrainians.

Today, the Ukrainians are still fighting fascists. Think on that for a bit.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Yes, well done, you're willing to say what absolutely everyone else is willing to say. Truly you are a free thinker.


Sorry, I'm not seeing the occupied territory there. I'm seeing Turkish, Israeli, Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, Omani, Emirati territory controlled by their respective governments, not an invading force?

You haven't sunk to such pathetic depths that you're equating a country giving the US an airbase with Russia invading and occupying Ukraine are you?

He’s so far down the rabbit hole he’ll never escape. I hope you realise you’re wasting your time.

 

[flook]

It doesn't really matter on what basis Russia/ NATO have expanded, just as me being a fool and you being so clever has no bearing on anything either. The expansion of both is a matter of fact - in opposite directions heading towards each other so destined to collide. I could reduce the argument to distances expanded to paint NATO as the aggressor, but that would make me a myopic idiot as well as a fool ;-)

Really? It doesn't matter that Russia is expanding by invading and conquering other nations?

So to prevent NATO expansion you would advocate that applications from the likes of Poland, Estonia, Latvia etc be declined, thereby depriving them of the umbrella of protection provided by NATO? What about Finland? Sweden?

Do you really believe that that would prevent Russian aggression? Perhaps you should check with Transnistria, Georgia and Chechnya