NATO

[Bigga]

What is NATO doing that is so wrong? Ukraine has asked NATO for weapons systems to defend themselves and we've supplied them with their request. We're giving them the gun, not pulling the trigger. RUSSIA needs to back off, pay reparations and acknowledge Ukrainian sovereignty, then the world will get back to normal.

Again, would you like the West to pay reparations to countries plundered by the West of that's your argument?

What's the difference?

 

[Bigga]

We are being slowly but inexorably dragged into an armed conflict fighting FOR Ukrainian nazis and fascists and AGAINST the grandsons of the men and women who sacrificed so many millions of their number to win WW2 for us.

It’s mental. But sadly inevitable.

I thought of posting this PoV earlier, but thought it would fall on deaf ears.

That choice has been borne out on these pages.

Millions died so we are here in today's world including RUSSIANS fighting Nazi Germany.

It boggles my mind about NATO's involvement.

 

[Metal Biker]

I'm not trying to say Russia are not the aggressor here, but the reality is that NATO membership has been creeping steadily eastwards and that Russia after initially using the cover of 'the war on terror' to go into Chechnya/Georgia and later Crimea have also been expanding. Two opposing forces expanding are bound to meet eventually and in this case that meeting point appears to be Ukraine.

But i've yet to uncover what NATO's endgame is in Russia/for Russia. What does Russia have to fear from NATO? Acceptance of LGBT+ policies seems to really frighten them, is what i've mostly gleaned from their paranoia.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

But i've yet to uncover what NATO's endgame is in Russia/for Russia. What does Russia have to fear from NATO? Acceptance of LGBT+ policies seems to really frighten them, is what i've mostly gleaned from their paranoia.

It's probably a US rather than NATO endgame and I suppose shifting the western sphere of influence from east Germany to Ukraine or the Russian border would be considered a neat ending to the cold war. I'm still not clear what the endgame in Iraq of Afghanistan was tbh but the Americans seem pleased enough with it.

 

[domalino]

This is a PoV I can see not having a dog in the fight.

Maybe hating neo Nazis is just a thing for me that others are fine with.

Oh yeah, totally, you’re the only one who hates Neo-Nazis. What a trailblazer you are!

 

[domalino]

So... can the West stoping raping the Middle East of its resources then?

Think that's fair, non...?

Completely ducking the question with whatabboutery but just for fun…


Point to me the area of the Middle East occupied by “the west”.

 

[Metal Biker]

Again, would you like the West to pay reparations to countries plundered by the West of that's your argument?

What's the difference?

Whoa, how the hell did we get onto reparations from the 'West'?!? But yeah, sure, if only EVERY nation in the world paid reparations to EVERY nation they have also wronged throughout history. Russia would owe QUITE a few people, as would China, Japan, most of the League of Arab Nations, Turkey, Italy, Germany, France, Spain (especially!) Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, US, Brazil, Argentina, most of Africa to each other, Mongolia, Iran, I mean how far back in history do you want to go? What's the cut off point, the list is endless.

But in THIS instance, Russia has invaded Ukraine, completely unprovoked, committed atrocities and war crimes that amount to genocide. They owe Ukraine an international apology, acceptance of blame, reparations for damages, acknowldegment of Ukraine as a sovereign nation, akcnowledgement that they many or many not wish to join NATO and/or the EU, that they will not oppose such actions and generally sign a treaty announcing a non-aggression pact, but apparently NATO needs to pay reparations first for other conflicts for that to be justified?

 

[Metal Biker]

It's probably a US rather than NATO endgame and I suppose shifting the western sphere of influence from east Germany to Ukraine or the Russian border would be considered a neat ending to the cold war. I'm still not clear what the endgame in Iraq of Afghanistan was tbh but the Americans seem pleased enough with it.

Exactly, US, not NATO. NATO has nothing to do with the discussion. If we wish to chat about US expansionism by all means, but it's not a NATO issue here.

 

[PragueBlue]

We are being slowly but inexorably dragged into an armed conflict fighting FOR Ukrainian nazis and fascists and AGAINST the grandsons of the men and women who sacrificed so many millions of their number to win WW2 for us.

It’s mental. But sadly inevitable.

We're supplying weapons to a country that wishes to be democratic and at peace and defend itself against an aggressor.

The Russia of today is not the same Russia as during WW2. It isn't defending itself against nazis in the same way as they were during WW2. Russia here is the aggressor, not Ukraine.

 

[Metal Biker]

We are being slowly but inexorably dragged into an armed conflict fighting FOR Ukrainian nazis and fascists and AGAINST the grandsons of the men and women who sacrificed so many millions of their number to win WW2 for us.

It’s mental. But sadly inevitable.

These would be the same Soviet soldiers who bravely raped and murdered their way across Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Estonia and Germany?

These are your 'heroes'?