Nelson Mandela RIP

[Dakeb]

The only proof needed to see his legacy is to look at how he is remembered by the people in South Africa. Outsiders can whitewash history but the great majority of people in the Republic of South Africa know he did more than any man to change the dismal state of the country from a repressive, race-based clique of fiefdoms to a republic based on one person, one vote. In it's short life as a country, RSA has advanced at a steady rate.

The ANC government is riddled with corruption. Filled with gangster criminals, it intimidates the electorate (especially Zulus in Natal), has stifled the economy when other Africa nations are improving, left large swathes of its followers destitute while a few government officials feather their nests, made it impossible for young white people get university places, and failed to tackle the ridiculously high murder and rape statistics. Things are no better than they were under apartheid for the man the street, meaning he hasn't reaped the benefit of democracy and freedom.

In the Orwellian utopia the ruling Xhosa tribe has set up, they are heading for a bloodbath that will make Rwanda look like a picnic.

General election in 2014 might just be the catalyst, with no Mandela on the scene.

Not Mandela's fault, he was just a figurehead, but this is the true legacy.

 

[BigJimLittleJim]

The only proof needed to see his legacy is to look at how he is remembered by the people in South Africa. Outsiders can whitewash history but the great majority of people in the Republic of South Africa know he did more than any man to change the dismal state of the country from a repressive, race-based clique of fiefdoms to a republic based on one person, one vote. In it's short life as a country, RSA has advanced at a steady rate.

The ANC government is riddled with corruption. Filled with gangster criminals, it intimidates the electorate (especially Zulus in Natal), has stifled the economy when other Africa nations are improving, left large swathes of its followers destitute while a few government officials feather their nests, made it impossible for young white people get university places, and failed to tackle the ridiculously high murder and rape statistics. Things are no better than they were under apartheid for the man the street, meaning he hasn't reaped the benefit of democracy and freedom.

In the Orwellian utopia the ruling Xhosa tribe has set up, they are heading for a bloodbath that will make Rwanda look like a picnic.

General election in 2014 might just be the catalyst, with no Mandela on the scene.

Not Mandela's fault, he was just a figurehead, but this is the true legacy.

Er....who said SA was perfect? Who said it isn't a new democracy?

You do seem to suggest they'd be just as well off under Apartheid - I presume you don't really mean that of course, for me, at least that awful state sanctioned racism has gone, and is no example for others any more.

Please expand as to how young whites can't get university places, and by inference the blacks can? Sources?

Rivers of blood all over again? We hear that every time an occupying force etc is mooted to leave the country they're in - Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland etc... rarely happens if at all, and certainly not to the extent the scaremongerer's wrongly predict.

 

[bluespana]

The only proof needed to see his legacy is to look at how he is remembered by the people in South Africa. Outsiders can whitewash history but the great majority of people in the Republic of South Africa know he did more than any man to change the dismal state of the country from a repressive, race-based clique of fiefdoms to a republic based on one person, one vote. In it's short life as a country, RSA has advanced at a steady rate.

The ANC government is riddled with corruption. Filled with gangster criminals, it intimidates the electorate (especially Zulus in Natal), has stifled the economy when other Africa nations are improving, left large swathes of its followers destitute while a few government officials feather their nests, made it impossible for young white people get university places, and failed to tackle the ridiculously high murder and rape statistics. Things are no better than they were under apartheid for the man the street, meaning he hasn't reaped the benefit of democracy and freedom.

In the Orwellian utopia the ruling Xhosa tribe has set up, they are heading for a bloodbath that will make Rwanda look like a picnic.

General election in 2014 might just be the catalyst, with no Mandela on the scene.

Not Mandela's fault, he was just a figurehead, but this is the true legacy.

Despite your hyperbole, RSA is ninth out of 55 African nations in human development. That's after decades of this.

"In one of the most devastating aspects of apartheid, the government forcibly removed black South Africans from rural areas designated as "white" to the homelands, and sold their land at low prices to white farmers. From 1961 to 1994, more than 3.5 million people were forcibly removed from their homes and deposited in the Bantustans, where they were plunged into poverty and hopelessness."

Apartheid was a blood stain on human history, along with a number of other truly corrupt systems in the 20th century.

 

[CITYBOY1000]

While I consider myself right wing on many issues I detest any regime based on superiority, divisiveness and oppression. Apartheid was indefensible by all decent standards.

Unfortunately, breaking such a manacle was always going to take more than a pea shooter.

Even if you find that hard to accept, look at Mandela in later life: inclusive, warm, humble, compassionate and charismatic.

R.I.P.

Aren't all regimes based on divisiveness, oppression and ultimately inequality ?

I heard during Apartheid and after that the ANC was run along similar lines. You were either with them or against them. If you said the wrong thing, failed to turn up for mass meetings or did anything to catch the attention, you'd be accused by the local village big-mouth of being in league with the whites, or with the Zulus or being an informer and you'd have the life kicked out of you in public just bfore they stuck a necklace round your neck. I heard it could happen if you fell out with someone or shagged the wrong person's misses.

I admire Desmond Tutu more than Mandela. I remember him walking into an angry mob once and retrieving some poor, battered soul from an imminent death and driving him away. I never saw Mandela doing that.

I recall John Simpson on newsnight once asking Mandela to condemn some footage of a zulu being driven through an ANC area, being dragged out, battered and then it said, the crowd "set fire to him and casually walked away". Mandela refused to condemn it and even sought to justify it on the grounds that they were fighting a struggle against oppression.

I don't get sucked into all this hype from the PC brigade terrified of speaking out against a figure being lauded by the BBC and the world's press largely because he won a battle against white racism and was black. I suppose they are frightened that if they speak out people will call them the 'r' word.

 

[BigJimLittleJim]

While I consider myself right wing on many issues I detest any regime based on superiority, divisiveness and oppression. Apartheid was indefensible by all decent standards.

Unfortunately, breaking such a manacle was always going to take more than a pea shooter.

Even if you find that hard to accept, look at Mandela in later life: inclusive, warm, humble, compassionate and charismatic.

R.I.P.

Aren't all regimes based on divisiveness, oppression and ultimately inequality ?

I heard during Apartheid and after that the ANC was run along similar lines. You were either with them or against them. If you said the wrong thing, failed to turn up for mass meetings or did anything to catch the attention, you'd be accused by the local village big-mouth of being in league with the whites, or with the Zulus or being an informer and you'd have the life kicked out of you in public just bfore they stuck a necklace round your neck. I heard it could happen if you fell out with someone or shagged the wrong person's misses.

I admire Desmond Tutu more than Mandela. I remember him walking into an angry mob once and retrieving some poor, battered soul from an imminent death and driving him away. I never saw Mandela doing that.

I recall John Simpson on newsnight once asking Mandela to condemn some footage of a zulu being driven through an ANC area, being dragged out, battered and then it said, the crowd "set fire to him and casually walked away". Mandela refused to condemn it and even sought to justify it on the grounds that they were fighting a struggle against oppression.

I don't get sucked into all this hype from the PC brigade terrified of speaking out against a figure being lauded by the BBC and the world's press largely because he won a battle against white racism and was black. I suppose they are frightened that if they speak out people will call them the 'r' word.

Yes, all regimes are by their very nature hierarchical, there are winners and losers, with all that lies inbetween.

SA is a new country, a new democracy, it will take a long time to eradicate all the bad stuff that comes, which is no reason to knock the people for overthrowing the inherantly Evil, racist, Apartheid system.

You seem more bothered about the overthrow of the whites than the struggle of the blacks to create a new country for all people, and lets face it, they need to learn how to be politicians etc.. seeing as how they weren't allowed any part of the power of government before.

 

[CITYBOY1000]

While I consider myself right wing on many issues I detest any regime based on superiority, divisiveness and oppression. Apartheid was indefensible by all decent standards.

Unfortunately, breaking such a manacle was always going to take more than a pea shooter.

Even if you find that hard to accept, look at Mandela in later life: inclusive, warm, humble, compassionate and charismatic.

R.I.P.

Aren't all regimes based on divisiveness, oppression and ultimately inequality ?

I heard during Apartheid and after that the ANC was run along similar lines. You were either with them or against them. If you said the wrong thing, failed to turn up for mass meetings or did anything to catch the attention, you'd be accused by the local village big-mouth of being in league with the whites, or with the Zulus or being an informer and you'd have the life kicked out of you in public just bfore they stuck a necklace round your neck. I heard it could happen if you fell out with someone or shagged the wrong person's misses.

I admire Desmond Tutu more than Mandela. I remember him walking into an angry mob once and retrieving some poor, battered soul from an imminent death and driving him away. I never saw Mandela doing that.

I recall John Simpson on newsnight once asking Mandela to condemn some footage of a zulu being driven through an ANC area, being dragged out, battered and then it said, the crowd "set fire to him and casually walked away". Mandela refused to condemn it and even sought to justify it on the grounds that they were fighting a struggle against oppression.

I don't get sucked into all this hype from the PC brigade terrified of speaking out against a figure being lauded by the BBC and the world's press largely because he won a battle against white racism and was black. I suppose they are frightened that if they speak out people will call them the 'r' word.

Yes, all regimes are by their very nature hierarchical, there are winners and losers, with all that lies inbetween.

SA is a new country, a new democracy, it will take a long time to eradicate all the bad stuff that comes, which is no reason to knock the people for overthrowing the inherantly Evil, racist, Apartheid system.

You seem more bothered about the overthrow of the whites than the struggle of the blacks to create a new country for all people, and lets face it, they need to learn how to be politicians etc.. seeing as how they weren't allowed any part of the power of government before.

There you go. Thanks BigJim. Your penultimate sentence makes my point for me. I must be racist.

 

[mcmanus]

Aren't all regimes based on divisiveness, oppression and ultimately inequality ?

I heard during Apartheid and after that the ANC was run along similar lines. You were either with them or against them. If you said the wrong thing, failed to turn up for mass meetings or did anything to catch the attention, you'd be accused by the local village big-mouth of being in league with the whites, or with the Zulus or being an informer and you'd have the life kicked out of you in public just bfore they stuck a necklace round your neck. I heard it could happen if you fell out with someone or shagged the wrong person's misses.

I admire Desmond Tutu more than Mandela. I remember him walking into an angry mob once and retrieving some poor, battered soul from an imminent death and driving him away. I never saw Mandela doing that.

I recall John Simpson on newsnight once asking Mandela to condemn some footage of a zulu being driven through an ANC area, being dragged out, battered and then it said, the crowd "set fire to him and casually walked away". Mandela refused to condemn it and even sought to justify it on the grounds that they were fighting a struggle against oppression.

I don't get sucked into all this hype from the PC brigade terrified of speaking out against a figure being lauded by the BBC and the world's press largely because he won a battle against white racism and was black. I suppose they are frightened that if they speak out people will call them the 'r' word.

Yes, all regimes are by their very nature hierarchical, there are winners and losers, with all that lies inbetween.

SA is a new country, a new democracy, it will take a long time to eradicate all the bad stuff that comes, which is no reason to knock the people for overthrowing the inherantly Evil, racist, Apartheid system.

You seem more bothered about the overthrow of the whites than the struggle of the blacks to create a new country for all people, and lets face it, they need to learn how to be politicians etc.. seeing as how they weren't allowed any part of the power of government before.

There you go. Thanks BigJim. Your penultimate sentence makes my point for me. I must be racist.

As sure as eggs are eggs when I saw you were the last poster, just like johnsononthleft, I know you'd hate Mandela.

Think about it.

 

[BigJimLittleJim]

Aren't all regimes based on divisiveness, oppression and ultimately inequality ?

I heard during Apartheid and after that the ANC was run along similar lines. You were either with them or against them. If you said the wrong thing, failed to turn up for mass meetings or did anything to catch the attention, you'd be accused by the local village big-mouth of being in league with the whites, or with the Zulus or being an informer and you'd have the life kicked out of you in public just bfore they stuck a necklace round your neck. I heard it could happen if you fell out with someone or shagged the wrong person's misses.

I admire Desmond Tutu more than Mandela. I remember him walking into an angry mob once and retrieving some poor, battered soul from an imminent death and driving him away. I never saw Mandela doing that.

I recall John Simpson on newsnight once asking Mandela to condemn some footage of a zulu being driven through an ANC area, being dragged out, battered and then it said, the crowd "set fire to him and casually walked away". Mandela refused to condemn it and even sought to justify it on the grounds that they were fighting a struggle against oppression.

I don't get sucked into all this hype from the PC brigade terrified of speaking out against a figure being lauded by the BBC and the world's press largely because he won a battle against white racism and was black. I suppose they are frightened that if they speak out people will call them the 'r' word.

Yes, all regimes are by their very nature hierarchical, there are winners and losers, with all that lies inbetween.

SA is a new country, a new democracy, it will take a long time to eradicate all the bad stuff that comes, which is no reason to knock the people for overthrowing the inherantly Evil, racist, Apartheid system.

You seem more bothered about the overthrow of the whites than the struggle of the blacks to create a new country for all people, and lets face it, they need to learn how to be politicians etc.. seeing as how they weren't allowed any part of the power of government before.

There you go. Thanks BigJim. Your penultimate sentence makes my point for me. I must be racist.

Not my words mate, do you consider you might have some views which could be construed that way?

I think you may be a complicated person, and you may disagree with my views and still we might both be wrong - but tell me why what I said is unreasonable regarding the new state.

 

[CITYBOY1000]

Yes, all regimes are by their very nature hierarchical, there are winners and losers, with all that lies inbetween.

SA is a new country, a new democracy, it will take a long time to eradicate all the bad stuff that comes, which is no reason to knock the people for overthrowing the inherantly Evil, racist, Apartheid system.

You seem more bothered about the overthrow of the whites than the struggle of the blacks to create a new country for all people, and lets face it, they need to learn how to be politicians etc.. seeing as how they weren't allowed any part of the power of government before.

There you go. Thanks BigJim. Your penultimate sentence makes my point for me. I must be racist.

As sure as eggs are eggs when I saw you were the last poster, just like johnsononthleft, I know you'd hate Mandela.

Think about it.

Maybe you should read people's posts first and then reach a conclusion mcmanus.

Think about that.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Why did the City squad have to pay money to sit in a room with him?