Nelson Mandela RIP

[mrcunny]

Catholics were not on an equal footing in Northern Ireland, discrimiation was rife.

Discrimination is rife everywhere and in every country and the main brunt of discrimination are the poor because they don't have access to protective mechanisms the well off do.

It doesn't however mean you can form a gang to kill and maim innocent people to garner support.

The act of terror is usually the last response of the desperate. I don't agree with terrorism or support it in anyway shape or form. I can understand why people are driven to it.
It is sad that we live in a world where there is oppression, war and terrorism. All fueled by hatred and fear.

Mandela should have been the poster boy for a hate campaign against the regime that imprisoned him for 27 years. He could have caused untold bloodshed upon his release, with words of hate. While imprisoned he reflected on his life and the situation and came out preaching words of unity and peace for both races.


This is like any other debate on Bluemoon. There are very few willing to listen to the other sides argument.

We can condemn him for his early years, while at the same time forgiving him and respecting him for becoming the man he became. It is futile to argue one point without acknowledging the other.

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

 

[Aphex]

Even the gaudily loved Thatcher obituary showed both sides of the coin on the BBC. Let's hope when the dust settles, the same can be said of Mandela. Like other people have said.

This is very fair comment. There seems to be a concerning, but not too surprising lack of dissenting voices as to Mandela's saint-like status.

The BBC are the same with the monarchy (which I broadly support) most especially BBC News.

If this thread is anything to go by, there are plenty of folk who think he had a prominent dark side, which is a perfectly acceptable view to hold even if it is one which I do not significantly share.

I'm mostly ambivalent to the 'get to' status of political activism. Mostly because wherever, whenever and in any historical or contemporary time period, it has its seeds in violence. It's entirely predictable. But that is my view, I wouldn't expect anyone else to be able to make a conscience decision without being in receipt of the whole facts of any situation.

Its a liberal view that I hold.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Discrimination is rife everywhere and in every country and the main brunt of discrimination are the poor because they don't have access to protective mechanisms the well off do.

It doesn't however mean you can form a gang to kill and maim innocent people to garner support.

The act of terror is usually the last response of the desperate. I don't agree with terrorism or support it in anyway shape or form. I can understand why people are driven to it.
It is sad that we live in a world where there is oppression, war and terrorism. All fueled by hatred and fear.

Mandela should have been the poster boy for a hate campaign against the regime that imprisoned him for 27 years. He could have caused untold bloodshed upon his release, with words of hate. While imprisoned he reflected on his life and the situation and came out preaching words of unity and peace for both races.


This is like any other debate on Bluemoon. There are very few willing to listen to the other sides argument.

We can condemn him for his early years, while at the same time forgiving him and respecting him for becoming the man he became. It is futile to argue one point without acknowledging the other.

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

The act of terror is usually the last response of the desperate. I don't agree with terrorism or support it in anyway shape or form. I can understand why people are driven to it.
It is sad that we live in a world where there is oppression, war and terrorism. All fueled by hatred and fear.

Mandela should have been the poster boy for a hate campaign against the regime that imprisoned him for 27 years. He could have caused untold bloodshed upon his release, with words of hate. While imprisoned he reflected on his life and the situation and came out preaching words of unity and peace for both races.


This is like any other debate on Bluemoon. There are very few willing to listen to the other sides argument.

We can condemn him for his early years, while at the same time forgiving him and respecting him for becoming the man he became. It is futile to argue one point without acknowledging the other.

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

 

[blue_paul]

No, it's as Matty pointed out in his brilliant post earlier. The IRA were living in a country where they were equal. Where they could vote, work and not be discriminated against because of your colour.

Catholics were not on an equal footing in Northern Ireland, discrimiation was rife.

Discrimination is rife everywhere and in every country and the main brunt of discrimination are the poor because they don't have access to protective mechanisms the well off do.

It doesn't however mean you can form a gang to kill and maim innocent people to garner support.

I never said you could justifiably 'form a gang to maim and kill innocent people to garner support.'
People need to realise that NI was hardly a living utopia before the troubles erupted.

Anyway, RIP Mandela, he showed wonderful grace when he was released from prison. I only hope that things don't blow up there now, was he keeping the lid on any lingering tensions between the different racial groups? The current ANC leadership are hardly inspiring, corruption levels are very high and black South Africans haven't been lifted out of poverty to a huge degree.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

You are making a judgement from a singular viewpoint. I agreed that death is wrong and he should be condemned for it.

It was a power struggle and I am sure people died on both sides. Africa is a brutal continent, where violence is the first response. Little value is placed on a life. There have been mass genocides in almost every African state.

When Mandela got to power he used his position to spread peace and ease the suffering. I am saying he deserves credit for this. Do you not agree?

 

[mrcunny]

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

They are blind to the truth mate..and this is why i dislike the ****.murders thousands and hes a hero..lets free the yorkshire ripper eh.he only killed a few prozzies to save the world..im already voting for sutcliffe to get the peace prize....

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

They are blind to the truth mate..and this is why i dislike the ****.murders thousands and hes a hero..lets free the yorkshire ripper eh.he only killed a few prozzies to save the world..im already voting for sutcliffe to get the peace prize....

I wholeheartedly apologize for discussing this with you. I clearly see that you are a troubled individual that needs help. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Murder to gain power is fine unless you're a white man like Bush and Blair.

Too funny.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Murder to gain power is fine unless you're a white man like Bush and Blair.

Too funny.

Where did anyone say that. I said it was wrong, on any side.

Do you condemn Bush and Blair for their actions? No because it suits your way of thinking.

Bush and Blair have since their war not used their time to alleviate the suffering of the nations of the people where the killings were carried out. Therein lies the difference.