North Stand expansion - seating, ticketing etc

[jrb]

I want to know because I’m interested.
I want to feel I’m part of creating a new home end.
Not as a 1894 member, but as a City fan.
I want the club to engage with me and the fans.
To talk to the fans.
So the fans and the club can work together to create a proper and atmospheric home end for all City fans.
That isn’t much to ask for.
And it’s something the club can do quite easily.
Going for a scoop!

 

[M23 Citizen]

When did they consult the fans? The club have never been in touch with me about it

Never.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

If the club have offered the 1894 Group a role as “Anchor tenants”‘in this, the Etihad’s first even dedicated “end”, and they turn it down because the proportion of season tickets isn’t right or something daft then 1894 have squandered a once in a lifetime opportunity for themselves.

I honestly think some blues need to spend a few games away from the south stand lower tier to realise how poor the current situation is. It couldn’t be worse.

that's a romantic view of the club's intentions. it's clutching at straws there is no precedent since the takeover of the club wanting to put the atmosphere first at any time. context is what has happened in recent years. tourists galore. prices through the roof. forced americanised nfl "atmosphere".

if you say to a group we'd like you to consider being "anchor tenants" 2 years before plans go in and talk to fans before the plans are put together, maybe they are being serious. to say it in april 2024 9 months after the plans have already been approved by manchester city council, it looks like the club are hoping to get their commercially driven plans through by being able to say "ahh but we spoke to the fan groups, they've ok'd it." we can't be used in this instance.

we weren't invited to the first meeting with the club, that was just citymatters. there was some resistance to the club's plans from within CM at that time which is why we then get an invite and a couple of the guys in CM were really pleased that someone else would be there give a bit of support as they felt isolated.

the club also know there'd be a tranche of supporters out there would see 1894 as some kind of kingmakers or key group to validate the new stand for them, and if 1894 say no then maybe the fans will just throw 1894 under the bus and blame them for "missing an opportunity". the club weren't even planning on having any rail seating initially and tried to "sell" that version to fan groups. that's their commitment to the atmosphere.

you've got to understand the way the club deals with fan groups, they don't want to be seen to give up any ground to them and any "good idea" has to look like it's come from them in the first place.. it's a corporation now, like pepsi cola, rather than the MCFC we knew and loved even with all its faults. No one at the club wants to upset their immediate boss because they are so powerful. That's the culture internally at the club. So if someone right at the very top wants a corporate stand with a gimmick thrown in to divide fans - take the 3,000 it's the best you'll get then that corporate stand is what we will get presented with regardless. The designs went in with no thought of atmosphere. Yes the images have people with smiley faces and waving flags - all on the bottom tier !!!

"a once in a lifetime opportunity" isn't available at the moment - everyone needs more detail, fans deserve that. a "dedicated end" is not available at the moment. it was 1894 negotiating for rail seating that even got us to 3,000.

The away fans are at the south stand end. club squandered their once in a lifetime opportunity to move them a decade ago, they ignored the fans and here we are today,. what we risk now is the pockets of vocal and passionate City supporters now being split even further. which means fans have even less of a voice as we are surrounded by daytrippers. even less chance to express themselves and keep the traditions of the club going.

the best we can hope for - unless there's a change of attitude towards the fans on atmosphere from he club, is that we get 2 ends that make enough noise to each others and it improves. we have some members who might go over and we certainly feel club could find people from their own waiting list (130,000??) who might go over there. 1894 aren't the only people who "sing" in the ground. there are plenty of others who might want to know more and get involved - but they've not been consulted by the club so far so they don't have a chance to be involved. we've asked the club to consult all fans (but maybe the club won't get the pre-determined answers they want. club asked us to do some extra specific surveying after one of the meetings but when we presented in next game they'd forgotten they'd even asked us to do it. they then said people aren't always truthful when answering surveys !)

the club knew the reaction to the plans would be underwhelming but they were determined to go ahead in this form. that's why there were announced same days a APT whispers. there's been no big statement from the OSC , from Citymatters or any other group saying these plans look transformative for the atmosphere. maybe that's telling.

Bluemoon may be full of people who mean well but there's a lot of people on here who talk a good game but aren't do-ers, who could have easily got involved with 1894 years ago, helped produce displays, worked their way up, managed to grab occasional meetings with club employees. Again it ls a lot of people sitting on the sidelines and pontificating but of course that's easier than trying to so something about it yourself.

the relationship between the club and 1894 is good overall, we work with them on many things, we disagree with them on their current plans and have asked , what are the prices going to be, give us more detail - how is that wrong, it's not wrong, it's drip feeding images trying to get PR behind an end that above achieving high match day revenue figures at the expense of everything else.

It has to be something that really catches the imagination to make people swop ends. People will also see through things that are half-hearted. Fans have moved seats so many times already over the last 20 years to accomodate change the club wants to impose. We have surveyed the fans we know. they are saying make it worth our while. ball is in club's court

 

[Coatigan]

Based on the comments on all sides, I think it's a simple case of communication. It would be good for 1894 to reach out and make contact with the club and see if there's an opportunity to get the details that are currently missing.

The club have stated that the number of rail seats could be increased. That, to me, shows that it is willing to engage and change things. Ultimately, whilst it's an expansion to drive revenue, you can't ignore the fact it's providing a single tier and a covered City Square which are elements it didn't need to deliver, at additional cost. So there's definitely a desire to try and deliver something the fans want - and that's all fans not just 1894 I should add.

But ultimately, there are other parts of the ground they could probably command more revenue from hospitality. It could be that in years 1-2 they look at a bedding in period. If 1894 get themselves in the 3,000 seats (hopefully more) then it's job done on the atmosphere front. The only direction that stand then goes is towards a full atmospheric end (at least in the 2nd tier). The GA+ is more likely to be forced out, people from elsewhere might look to move in to join the party and space opens up elsewhere for additional hospitality (not GA+) which delivers more revenue.

There are plenty of options. But rather than taking issue with it and doing nothing, whilst understandable, it's better to try and open up some dialogue and see if the missing information changes the mindset.

I like your balance.

My opinion, the hospitality here as a revenue generating element is quite overstated.

I don't think the club's reasoning for including it is Entirely revenue driven. Purely, because the proportion of it is just so small. If it was, they would imo have crammed far more hospitality in.

Think about it, how much extra revenue do 648 premium seats, out of 9518 in that whole tier, really bring a year. Say that '+' was a difference of £300 a year, from what others have mentioned elsewhere in the grounds, what's that 200k of a difference? Peanuts, in the scheme of that tier generating potentially 7-8m a year. The top part is more formal and probably pricier, but even then, it is only 5% of the tier.

My take is their inclusion is driven by the club wanting long term flexibility, ad much as a bit more income. And the chance to host a champions league final, which they have said before. Think uefa have guidelines on hospitality requirements, wouldn't surprise me if the club covered that here.

The hotel and f&b should more than pay for itself. The retail should cover the bulk of that building. So it isn't like the club are up against it here to recoup the whole investment through ticket sales.

I think people should be more open to the idea that the club are including these because they (rightlynor wrongly) think it is a good thing for the stand, rather than just a bit more profitable. Maybe Populous played a part in selling that to them, as jrb has pointed out they have done at spurs already, and the club have bought into it. Or maybe they gave the club exactly what they wanted.

 

[M23 Citizen]

This is the key in terms of making it into a proper home end. We need to convince the club to put rail seating in the orange area.

The club seem open to it as well. Perhaps this is where city matters, 1894 group, supporters clubs can come together to push the club or at least make the club tell us if it’s going to happen and when.

It’s a bit vague, saying we might do it based on interest. The club knows demand for standing is huge.

This is a great opportunity and there’s still time to change this.

Indeed.

I reckon the club don’t realise how big the demand for standing is. M

But making it a slim strip at the very back of the expansion is not going to entice people. It has to be more substantial.

 

[Beaker]

you don't survey the entire population you do a sample and that sample is representative of the population. That's how stats work. I don't get what you're moaning at. The fans were surveyed, they responded and the club actioned it. It sounds like you don't agree with what the fans said and you're in the minority. Just a matter of opinion

Whether you agree with the approach 1894 are taking or not, you’re about as far wide of the mark as possible with that statement. The fans overwhelmingly want safe standing.

 

[Beaker]

Why is that a bad thing? It is a 12000 person end. You won't get that proportion of one profile type among the population.

To me the only thing that matters is that they are all blues.

Beyond that, young, old, single, married, dad, grandad, grandson, ambulant, able-bodied, posh, not posh, standing, sitting, male, female, does it really matter so much to make it fail as a whole? Not for me, sorry.

Unfortunately even this can’t be guaranteed nowadays.

 

[Coatigan]

if they don't they don't . opportunity being squandered will be down to club no-one else.
they don't even listen to citymatters their own fan advisory board. that's why 1894 get more impact going public

What if they don't, but the opportunity isn't squandered, and it actually turns out to be good?

 

[blueparrot]

Unfortunately even this can’t be guaranteed nowadays.

Does it matter could it ever be guaranteed, not really , there will be some non City fans in the ground spread around, not enough to matter though. I’d have thought a large amount probably the majority of City fans have been to watch other teams when on holiday or whatever it’s fairly normal behaviour for football fans.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Something that doesn't get mentioned is that SS3 generates a really good atmosphere (on a par with SS1 I'd say) with no safe standing in the home section and no obvious organisation.

The expanded NS L2 should be even better as it's one huge section (we can't see or hear anything below in SS3 unless you are on the front few rows) plus it will have rail seating. If 8000 additional seats with at least 3000 standing can't generate noise then it's time to forget about atmosphere really.