North Stand expansion - seating, ticketing etc
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Tim of the Oak
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I think too much democracy is overrated. Look at the meltdown at FCUM, when they couldn’t agree the choice of soup for the homeless!
1894 have made plenty of good suggestions to City apart from demanding to know the seat prices for three years. As others have said, the Club committing for affordable tickets (maybe outside the likely 5 rows of premium seats) would be enough for now. Ideally there wouldn’t be any premium seats there.
Maybe 1894 could try to renegage with City. I don’t really like this impression that fans groups are going to sit on the sidelines marking the club’s homework, but maybe that’s just me.
As other posters have said, the more the new expanded stand is marketed as the atmosphere / vocal fans end, the greater the prospect of getting more singers in there. Especially if most of the seats are affordable.
1894 have made plenty of good suggestions to City apart from demanding to know the seat prices for three years. As others have said, the Club committing for affordable tickets (maybe outside the likely 5 rows of premium seats) would be enough for now. Ideally there wouldn’t be any premium seats there.
Maybe 1894 could try to renegage with City. I don’t really like this impression that fans groups are going to sit on the sidelines marking the club’s homework, but maybe that’s just me.
As other posters have said, the more the new expanded stand is marketed as the atmosphere / vocal fans end, the greater the prospect of getting more singers in there. Especially if most of the seats are affordable.
wearethesouthstand
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We were advised by the FSA that fan advisory boards are allowed to ask clubs what their 5 year business plan is. It’s just that Citymatters don’t ask that question to the club. So we’re doing it. It’s in the guidance set out about fan engagement where at least one board member has to attend these meetings- in City’s case it’s Danny Wilson. Guidance from
The department for digital media culture and sport. Fans have had 10 price rises in 11 years whereas Chelsea had 12 years of freezes and United had 11. We’re absolutely entitled to ask what is the business plan and the pricing structure not just for north stand but for the whole ground- important if fans are to seriously consider relocating from a different part of the stadium.
The club can run through the business plan but the guidance is that has to be kept confidential. In this instance asking fans to sign NDAs would be acceptable.
Tell us the prices. And if they are going to force flexi gold on us - or reintroduce the choice of a traditional season ticket. If its good news the club don’t have to worry about fans campaigning on these issues for a bit !
We know the stadium will look nice. But that’s not the issue. We need to know new stand is designed with current fan base in mind not just the richer fans of tomorrow.
City thinks that our commercial match day revenues are too low, that we get to no1 through prize money but they want to double match day revenue over next 5 years. So they must have costed prices. So what are they ? With SS3 it was cheap prices initially then rises afterwards. Fans are telling us they need a freeze.
We don’t need to re-engage we constantly have a channel of communication that is open - ball is in club’s hands now though.
The club will want their cake and eat it - be seen to caring about the atmosphere when the main objective is revenue. So we are asking club to put up the facts first. That’s the sequencing we want to see. Not bouncing fans into moving through glossy pictures and PR gimmicks and then after the fan base has been divided and conquered even more those moving find out it’s dearer than they thought.
We have a duty to dig in a bit and try and smoke out the plans so that fans know what’s down the line- price wise and status of ticket wise
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Is there any proof that 3000 or more singers want to move there?
I have never said ‘3000 singers’ want to move to the North stand.
What I have said, and I’m confident of this, is that more than 3000 fans and more will want to move to the safe standing section on NSL2.
What I have also said is that there needs to be a proper singing section on NSL2, in the middle of the 3000 safe standing seats.
pride in battle
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The reason why we are on this thread is because of the new North stand, not because you think the atmosphere is shit all the time.
If you think the atmosphere is shit all the time discuss that on the atmosphere thread and come up with a solution.
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For gods sake, what face off?
What are you on about?
What has something you’ve conjured up in your mind got to do with City fans moving to the North stand?
1000’s of City fans who can’t currently get a season ticket or a match day ticket will have the opportunity to get either because of the new North stand
Put plain and simple. City have to sell/shift 8000 extra tickets on a match day in the North stand and across the Etihad
It really isn’t hard if you think about it sensibly and logically.
pride in battle
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Tim of the Oak
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I don’t think an outline business plan would carry many surprises. I doubt it would include detailed prices but match day revenues for the next 4 seasons are going to be something like:
2024/25 £75mil
2025/26 £85mil
2026/27 £92mil
2027/28 £100mil
If the FSA want more specifics from us, maybe they could refrain from passing motions smearing our club, in an attempt to make us less competitive. We don’t know yet whether we will come out of these legal cases unscathed so being highly specific on ticket prices would be unhealthy at this stage. It seems unlikely now but we might need some price reductions to fill a 60k plus stadium, if we don’t continue to be very competitive.
Yes City want increased revenues and an improved atmosphere. Maybe that’s wanting their cake and eat it. That said, it should be possible when 7,000 seats are being added including a minimum of 3k rail seats. Don’t many fans want a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets and maximum rail seating.
Challenge the Club by all means but maybe also become central to the solution. For example, if groups of fans want to move to North Stand L2 then maybe the club could (or 1894 could offer to) ask for a video of the group singing a City song or two. Especially for good value season cards where demand should exceed supply and the aim is to get as many singers in there as possible. Maybe City would let you know the prices for the rail seating area if you offered to help?
wearethesouthstand
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I’ll step in here as one of the organisers of 1894 - the statement doesn’t rule anything in or rule anything out. Please read the statement we entered into discussions in good faith but they only invited 1 person in from 1894 9 months after the plans had already been approved by mcr city council. So our fear is that speaking to fans was a tick box exercise, we gave our summary, that club seem want to maximise revenue over atmosphere at all cost. We also said there is time to alter plans, take on board fans feedback and we said our door open.
So that’s yes we want to work with the club - no we are not recommending a move at this moment until we hear more detail - no could become yes - ball in club’s court, they have to be serious about the atmosphere first.
I think if many on here were trying to deal
With the club they would just be happy to take any sub standard offer because they are not prepared to have the patience to hold out for further concessions.
wearethesouthstand
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None of our requests / points raised to the club so far have been unfair or out of order. All info we pass on, was factual - evidence based with comments from fans and surveys done. We asked for surveys to be passed on to branches. If your branch didn’t receive one then we cannot control that. Please remember the timeline. Plans approved without fan consultation, tick box exercise started this April, no detail on prices.
When the club invites 1 person from our group and invites 12 from
Citymatters where 2 or 3 are proactive and the other 9 are passive and the club has control over the shortlist process and takes away its’ independence then the club don’t see us as being central to solving the problem. They want it ok’d by their hand picked panel with a token 1894 person there so they can pass the buck and say fans were consulted. That’s the reality of the situation.
Ranting?
You just frustrate me.
You post the same things time and again.
You obviously haven’t been reading this thread properly.
Or what a certain 1894 member who was invited by the club to the NS meetings has posted.
What do you mean, a lot easier?
I know it’s United. (Jrb, you Rag!)
Could we learn something from the way United and their fans are working together to expand their safe standing and singing sections.
Look past the guff.
Our new area of the Stretford End is the first part of a long-term plan which will see us increase our numbers in the Stretford End (as well as other areas of the stadium). We currently have 2,000 Season Ticket holders from all parts of Old Trafford, all of who are working together to reintroduce the community and culture that we once all enjoyed at the match, including allowing large groups of friends to be grouped together for the first time in almost 30 years.
In order for us to continue to grow we need all like-minded Reds to buy into the idea of reintroducing the once famous atmosphere back into Old Trafford, if you prefer the ‘away day’ atmosphere than sitting in silence then this is for you.
Could we learn something from the way United and their fans are working together to expand their safe standing and singing sections.
Look past the guff.
Our new area of the Stretford End is the first part of a long-term plan which will see us increase our numbers in the Stretford End (as well as other areas of the stadium). We currently have 2,000 Season Ticket holders from all parts of Old Trafford, all of who are working together to reintroduce the community and culture that we once all enjoyed at the match, including allowing large groups of friends to be grouped together for the first time in almost 30 years.
In order for us to continue to grow we need all like-minded Reds to buy into the idea of reintroducing the once famous atmosphere back into Old Trafford, if you prefer the ‘away day’ atmosphere than sitting in silence then this is for you.
wearethesouthstand
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That motion was written by spirit of shankly a group we normally get on with. We were working with them specifically on a nationwide ticket campaign but said we were doing our own thing after that motion went forward- because we felt it was basically saying City don’t have a right to use Litigation to defend themselves. We suspect ian byrne mp an SoS committee member involved in this and called him out on Twitter.
The motion was included on the agm by malcolm clarke this was his last agm. Was a very good bloke years ago but in recent years seems to think City’s success has been a bad thing for football and likely signed off on the motion as a last hurrah.
That being said FSA is a large organisation and we still have many allies at all
Levels including in different groups, who explained to us they voted for it but didn’t see it as an anti-City motion more to stop the direction of travel of litigation in football. We countered it’s a bit late for that given the Premier League was formed by clubs you all
Support threatening the Football League with legal action.
Ourselves and OSC did see it as , neither of us were present but we would have abstained. MCFC Foodbank did vote in favour but see now maybe that was a mistake, especially as Leicester City recently drove a bus through the premier league’s rule book which proves the point clubs have a right to defend themselves.
Tim of the Oak
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Thanks for your helpful reply. Maybe there could be some middle ground whereby City inform 1894 of ticket prices for the rail seat blocks. I’m just of the view that it’s better to be in the tent than outside. Even if employees of the Club (not many Blues amongst them) haven’t shown 1894 sufficient respect.
FWIW, I’m a member of 1894 as well as the OSC. That said, it is yonks since I helped with / contributed to any match displays. (FWIW, We have struck up a rapport with the Feyenord supporters group over the years thanks to 1894).
If 1894 had a role in helping to fill North Stand L2 with more singers, I could give time to help assess Blues who want to be in the main singing blocks. It doesn’t seem like that is going to be needed though so no worries.
Tim of the Oak
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Both City and our fans groups could learn something from this approach as the scum and their supporters groups are working together in your shared example.I know it’s United. (Jrb, you Rag!)
Could we learn something from the way United and their fans are working together to expand their safe standing and singing sections.
Look past the guff.
Our new area of the Stretford End is the first part of a long-term plan which will see us increase our numbers in the Stretford End (as well as other areas of the stadium). We currently have 2,000 Season Ticket holders from all parts of Old Trafford, all of who are working together to reintroduce the community and culture that we once all enjoyed at the match, including allowing large groups of friends to be grouped together for the first time in almost 30 years.
In order for us to continue to grow we need all like-minded Reds to buy into the idea of reintroducing the once famous atmosphere back into Old Trafford, if you prefer the ‘away day’ atmosphere than sitting in silence then this is for you.
I think most of the Blues who are suggesting 1894 and City adapt their approaches is to keep you guys who are running 1894 in the tent, as regards the expanded North Stand. It might be naive on my part to think that is doable.
You are rewording the statement. And in so doing, changing its whole tone.
That may be how you want it to read, but believe me when I say this, that is not how it reads. Or at least not to everyone, or outside the circle involved.
Trust me, I don't have it in for 1894. What I have disagreed with here, right or wrong, I have done so in good faith. It is an observation I stand by.
I have even asked a couple friends who are neutrals how they read it, purely to sense check myself. It comes off as a stand-off, aggressive, petty even.
What's done is done and I believe you and others here that you probably don't mean that. But maybe take it on board for your next one. If you want to, obviously.
pride in battle
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Thanks for that, i still think it will be a huge shame if you can't come to a compromise with the club, ie 3000 rail seats (minimum) is a bloody good start.
pride in battle
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I post the same thing ? That 1894 should be involved ? Yes they should... A lot easier is with regard to getting singers in there ie 1894.
I keep banging on about 1894 being 'anchor' in there because if our main support group don't want to go in there it looks pathetic from our side banging on about atmosphere when they are staying put because of politics...its our club, don't bite your nose to spite your face, 1894 just get in there !!
I know it’s United. (Jrb, you Rag!)
Could we learn something from the way United and their fans are working together to expand their safe standing and singing sections.
Look past the guff.
Our new area of the Stretford End is the first part of a long-term plan which will see us increase our numbers in the Stretford End (as well as other areas of the stadium). We currently have 2,000 Season Ticket holders from all parts of Old Trafford, all of who are working together to reintroduce the community and culture that we once all enjoyed at the match, including allowing large groups of friends to be grouped together for the first time in almost 30 years.
In order for us to continue to grow we need all like-minded Reds to buy into the idea of reintroducing the once famous atmosphere back into Old Trafford, if you prefer the ‘away day’ atmosphere than sitting in silence then this is for you.
I know it’s United. (Jrb, you Rag!)
Could we learn something from the way United and their fans are working together to expand their safe standing and singing sections.
Look past the guff.
Our new area of the Stretford End is the first part of a long-term plan which will see us increase our numbers in the Stretford End (as well as other areas of the stadium). We currently have 2,000 Season Ticket holders from all parts of Old Trafford, all of who are working together to reintroduce the community and culture that we once all enjoyed at the match, including allowing large groups of friends to be grouped together for the first time in almost 30 years.
In order for us to continue to grow we need all like-minded Reds to buy into the idea of reintroducing the once famous atmosphere back into Old Trafford, if you prefer the ‘away day’ atmosphere than sitting in silence then this is for you.
Great post JRB. When you boil that down it’s just a form to get a database of fans together who want to sing. Then getting the club to give them tickets so that they can sit together. And I’m not being a dick we’ve probably got the capacity to do it for more games than them. We should be brave enough to engage with them and find out how they’re doing it.