Oleg Shatov

[Aguerovic]

No, it's 5 goals in 51 appearances like I said. You can't use Shatov's (apparent) good European form for Zenit yet chose to ignore his European form for Anzhi. You also can't claim 1 minute that Shatov's 100 appearances for Ural mean fuck all, then the next claim making 100 appearances at senior level by the time he was 21 says something about his ability. You pick and chose which bits of Shatov's career to use, and what to ignore, all to try and prove some kind of failed point about his ability. Look at his CL record this season, but don't look at his CL record in previous seasons as that is apparently irrelevant. Ignore his time at Ural as they were shit, but isn't it impressive how often he played for Ural.

I bring up his stats from past seasons as there have been 8 of them, with over 250 appearances. That's a far more accurate measure of what he can do than a 3 month, 18 game, snapshot since the summer. Michael Ricketts once scored 24 goals in a season for Bolton, and won an England cap, yet only broke 10 goals in a season twice in the next 10 years, and 1 of those was in League One. Now whilst I'm not saying Shatov is as shit as Ricketts what I am saying is anyone is capable of playing above themselves for a relatively short period of time, but when you look at their careers as a whole it's a more accurate measure of their ability. Shatov's career is in it's 9th season and, stats wise, it's the last 3 months only that look anything other than mediocre.

Problem with your analysing of football players, you think scoring goals is all gospel and that is sole indicator of a player's quality. Anzhi and Zenit showed interest in Shatov and bought him not because he was a 30+ goal scorer or an established player. No he wasn't. He was bought because of his potential he displayed. Shatov had huge potential at a bad team, who weren't always in the top tier Russian Premier League for the 4 years Shatov was year. In fact Ural are a team comparable to QPR. A team that fluctuates in the top tier and second tier of football. Tbf, I don't think half of those caps for Ural were in the top tier. You may ask, why wasn't he at a top club from the start of his career? In Russia, unless you are from European Russia, so Moscow, St Petersburg, Kazan, etc it's hard for players to break it into mainstream top level football in Russia. He's from a small town in Siberia.

He had masses of potential, at a Siberian low resource club. Clubs like Zenit Anzhi knew what they were getting with him, it was just a matter of time and it finally clicked. Sterling never was born in a rural middle of nowhere and he hadn't had to work his way up from the bottom like Shatov had. Don't bring up the argument "anybody is capable of playing above themselves" because everyone knew Shatov was gonna finally mature as a talent, it just wasn't known when. It's a bit like Martial. Granted he is young, and we all know Martial won't have great record anytime soon but he was bought because one day he will become the player Utd want.

 

[Aguerovic]

That's quite astute, concentrating on non-mainstream players playing in the backwater of the Champions League in front of tens of thousands of people and a global TV audience. Good example of thinking outside the box there.

Lol Shatov a mainstream player? I'm pretty sure 95% of football fans won't know who Shatov is, let alone regular people. I'm pretty sure 95% of people didn't know Shatov before I started posting here.

But this will change soon I'm sure. Shatov's CL performances and his elegance style in the league has already started attracting teams, and it's only November.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

 

[Matty]

Problem with your analysing of football players, you think scoring goals is all gospel and that is sole indicator of a player's quality. Anzhi and Zenit showed interest in Shatov and bought him not because he was a 30+ goal scorer or an established player. No he wasn't. He was bought because of his potential he displayed. Shatov had huge potential at a bad team, who weren't always in the top tier Russian Premier League for the 4 years Shatov was year. In fact Ural are a team comparable to QPR. A team that fluctuates in the top tier and second tier of football. Tbf, I don't think half of those caps for Ural were in the top tier. You may ask, why wasn't he at a top club from the start of his career? In Russia, unless you are from European Russia, so Moscow, St Petersburg, Kazan, etc it's hard for players to break it into mainstream top level football in Russia. He's from a small town in Siberia.

He had masses of potential, at a Siberian low resource club. Clubs like Zenit Anzhi knew what they were getting with him, it was just a matter of time and it finally clicked. Sterling never was born in a rural middle of nowhere and he hadn't had to work his way up from the bottom like Shatov had. Don't bring up the argument "anybody is capable of playing above themselves" because everyone knew Shatov was gonna finally mature as a talent, it just wasn't known when. It's a bit like Martial. Granted he is young, and we all know Martial won't have great record anytime soon but he was bought because one day he will become the player Utd want.

You can pontificate as much as you want, the fact remains he's already 25 years old and, aside from a handful of games this season, he's not shown anything like enough ability to be remotely considered for a club with the resources City have at their disposal. Also, goal stats are easier to come by than assists but, I did mentioned a fair few times, that he also doesn't provide a huge number of those per season either. A 25 year old winger, who Zenit would overcharge for spectacularly, who doesn't score anything like enough, and doesn't create anything like enough goalscoring opportunities for his teammates, yeah I can see City and the like falling over themselves to pay over £30m or so for him! 25 year olds shouldn't be showing potential, 20 year olds should. 25 year olds should be regularly contributing at a high level. 25 to 28 is generally considered to be the peak years for outfield players, both in terms of fitness and ability, certainly the case for attack minded players. No-one "knew" Shatov would do anything, like with all players they took their best guess. There's no guarantee that the last 3 months are demonstrative of Shatov suddenly taking a huge leap forward in terms of his ability, it could be a momentary upturn in form which will eventually slip away. It's only after a concerted period of time can you say someone has improved, as they say, form is temporary, class is permanent. Shatov is in good form, he hasn't shown anything in the previous 8 seasons to suggest this is a permanent step up. You're looking at a very small period of time for Shatov, 18 games in a career spanning in the region of 270 games, and saying "look, see, he's showing he's top quality", I'm looking at 250 of those 270 or so games and saying "look, year on year he's been ok but nothing better, I need far, FAR more than a handful of good performances before I'm willing to even entertain he's the level of player a side aiming to win major league titles, and European trophies should be looking at". Anyone who has even a modicum of impartiality couldn't help but agree with my way of assessing this.

Lol Shatov a mainstream player? I'm pretty sure 95% of football fans won't know who Shatov is, let alone regular people. I'm pretty sure 95% of people didn't know Shatov before I started posting here.

But this will change soon I'm sure. Shatov's CL performances and his elegance style in the league has already started attracting teams, and it's only November.

He's hardly non-mainstream is he? He plays for probably Russia's best side, alongside world recognised names like Hulk. He's played regular Champion's League football. He's got 20 or so international caps for Russia. Non- mainstream would be some guy from the lower leagues in Europe, of playing for an unfancied side in a top flight that the majority would never see or hear from. If I can watch a player play on my TV fairly regularly, from thousands of miles away, then he's crossed over from non-mainstream to being very much in the public eye. You mention, repeatedly, his European performances. Would these be the ones that have seen him play 31 times in Europe, scoring the princely sum of 4 goals. Tell me this, why would Shatov be valued higher than, say, Ahmed Musa of CSKA? Same league, same amount of European appearances, highly likely to be vastly cheaper, scores a decent amount more goals and is younger too.

 

[Aguerovic]

You can pontificate as much as you want, the fact remains he's already 25 years old and, aside from a handful of games this season, he's not shown anything like enough ability to be remotely considered for a club with the resources City have at their disposal. Also, goal stats are easier to come by than assists but, I did mentioned a fair few times, that he also doesn't provide a huge number of those per season either. A 25 year old winger, who Zenit would overcharge for spectacularly, who doesn't score anything like enough, and doesn't create anything like enough goalscoring opportunities for his teammates, yeah I can see City and the like falling over themselves to pay over £30m or so for him! 25 year olds shouldn't be showing potential, 20 year olds should. 25 year olds should be regularly contributing at a high level. 25 to 28 is generally considered to be the peak years for outfield players, both in terms of fitness and ability, certainly the case for attack minded players. No-one "knew" Shatov would do anything, like with all players they took their best guess. There's no guarantee that the last 3 months are demonstrative of Shatov suddenly taking a huge leap forward in terms of his ability, it could be a momentary upturn in form which will eventually slip away. It's only after a concerted period of time can you say someone has improved, as they say, form is temporary, class is permanent. Shatov is in good form, he hasn't shown anything in the previous 8 seasons to suggest this is a permanent step up. You're looking at a very small period of time for Shatov, 18 games in a career spanning in the region of 270 games, and saying "look, see, he's showing he's top quality", I'm looking at 250 of those 270 or so games and saying "look, year on year he's been ok but nothing better, I need far, FAR more than a handful of good performances before I'm willing to even entertain he's the level of player a side aiming to win major league titles, and European trophies should be looking at". Anyone who has even a modicum of impartiality couldn't help but agree with my way of assessing this.



He's hardly non-mainstream is he? He plays for probably Russia's best side, alongside world recognised names like Hulk. He's played regular Champion's League football. He's got 20 or so international caps for Russia. Non- mainstream would be some guy from the lower leagues in Europe, of playing for an unfancied side in a top flight that the majority would never see or hear from. If I can watch a player play on my TV fairly regularly, from thousands of miles away, then he's crossed over from non-mainstream to being very much in the public eye. You mention, repeatedly, his European performances. Would these be the ones that have seen him play 31 times in Europe, scoring the princely sum of 4 goals. Tell me this, why would Shatov be valued higher than, say, Ahmed Musa of CSKA? Same league, same amount of European appearances, highly likely to be vastly cheaper, scores a decent amount more goals and is younger too.

Well you are 100% right, age 25-29 is the peak of a footballer's career. And guess? I would say this is Shatov's pretty much peak, although I'm sure he will come even better next season though. Yes, 25 year old shouldn't be showing potential, when did I say Shatov is a potential at 25 years old? He was a potential buy when Zenit/Anzhi went for him. I would suggest you to watch Shatov next CL game, it will be an early kick off. Unfortunately he has been injured for few weeks as of right now though. I predict Shatov to cause havoc in the remaining of the CL campaign this season.

Yes Shatov is a CL player and a top earner in football, but it really comes down to your definition of "mainstream" player. For me, a non "mainstream" player is someone that regular football fans aren't too aware of, or know. Like I said before, Shatov has already made much more impact this year in 4 games at CL, then he has the whole past 2 years of CL put together. It's all about talent and it's maturity. Some players are late bloomers and experience peak later than others.

On the topic of Ahmed Musa. Well Shatov tbh only has one more year left on his contract, not sure about Musa. Musa is just a goal scorer where as Shatov is a complete player, who can assist, score and create chances out of nothing. That's what sets Shatov alight. Like the clip with this post. Plus this season, Shatov despite being only a midfielder has scored same goals as Musa and he has 3 less appearances than Musa. I'm not sure how much Shatov would cost or how much Musa is worth. Musa can still develop as a player and Shatov is the complete product who can become even better for 2016/17. But I can say one thing for sure, Shatov's wages will be far higher than Musa. That's just the quota based system in Russia which has inflated the native player's wages.

 

[TCIB]

I fucking love this thread :-D

 

[kaz7]

I fucking love this thread :-D

Shatner loves you brother

 

[Matty]

Well you are 100% right, age 25-29 is the peak of a footballer's career. And guess? I would say this is Shatov's pretty much peak, although I'm sure he will come even better next season though. Yes, 25 year old shouldn't be showing potential, when did I say Shatov is a potential at 25 years old? He was a potential buy when Zenit/Anzhi went for him. I would suggest you to watch Shatov next CL game, it will be an early kick off. Unfortunately he has been injured for few weeks as of right now though. I predict Shatov to cause havoc in the remaining of the CL campaign this season.

Yes Shatov is a CL player and a top earner in football, but it really comes down to your definition of "mainstream" player. For me, a non "mainstream" player is someone that regular football fans aren't too aware of, or know. Like I said before, Shatov has already made much more impact this year in 4 games at CL, then he has the whole past 2 years of CL put together. It's all about talent and it's maturity. Some players are late bloomers and experience peak later than others.

On the topic of Ahmed Musa. Well Shatov tbh only has one more year left on his contract, not sure about Musa. Musa is just a goal scorer where as Shatov is a complete player, who can assist, score and create chances out of nothing. That's what sets Shatov alight. Like the clip with this post. Plus this season, Shatov despite being only a midfielder has scored same goals as Musa and he has 3 less appearances than Musa. I'm not sure how much Shatov would cost or how much Musa is worth. Musa can still develop as a player and Shatov is the complete product who can become even better for 2016/17. But I can say one thing for sure, Shatov's wages will be far higher than Musa. That's just the quota based system in Russia which has inflated the native player's wages.

There's no further point debating Shatov to be honest, we're both coming at this from 2 completely different viewpoints. I want to see a long period of quality football from Shatov before I'm willing to say he's good enough for a top level European side, you seem to believe 18 games in his 9th season is enough proof that he's become top quality. I think a lack of goals and assists over the previous 8 seasons is demonstrative of a player who doesn't contribute enough in the attacking third, you seem to feel, and I quote "Shatov is a complete player, who can assist, score and create chances out of nothing" when the stats simply don't back that up in the slightest. I'm not going to convince you he's not good enough, in fact I suspect if Shatov failed to score or assist for the rest of this season you'd still be convinced he's the best winger in World football. You're sure as hell not going to convince me he's as good as you claim he is, as you're quite clearly wrong. Best to just leave it there.

I feel supremely confident in this prediction however, Shatov will spend his career at least 1 level below the top flight of European clubs (of which City is a member) and could well spend the rest of his career playing in the Russian league.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

 

[stablemcfc]

Here's another video of Shatov, but instead it's his best highlights, instead of individual highlights of a particular match. Unfortunately, the person who used to make these Shatov videos few months back has seemed to stop making these now for some reason. Odd.

They're his best highlights? Figured I'd give it a watch & give him a chance but they're not very impressive.

Just the pass at 1:57 is enough to make me fed up with him.

These videos are made to make players look good; you've claimed yourself on here that he's on a par with KdB - yet just search for an equivalent video for KdB to see how far behind he is in a far weaker league.