Our Badge

[hilts]

You may have misread the tone of my post. Or I may have misread the tone of your git bit.

You did I don't think you sank the Mary Rose either intentionally or otherwise:-)

 

[SebastianBlue]

I wouldn't get wound up by this debate. The ship sailed long ago.

From my blog at https://acton28.blog/2023/04/22/shipahoy/

Dear Manchester, put your money where your mouth is, this slavery malarkey has to end. End of. Peace and love, Abe Lincoln (P.S. United don’t exist as a club yet, but they’ll probably worship the devil).

The above letter is a paraphrased example. Like much of the world Manchester was wearing the latest clothing of the time around that time. Gucci? Not born. Cotton? Everywhere. The bustling smog of Manchester coated moths, as much as provided clothing to men and women alike. Transgenders were around but less represented. It was, of course, different times. Cash was made. Lots of it.

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels had met in Manchester a few years earlier and released their Waterstones best seller The Condition of the Working Class in England. Jack Reacher novels were nowhere to be seen.

Turn-und Sportverein München von 1860 hadn’t even started kicking a football until 1899. Die Blauen had other sports, and all could have worn cotton garments made in Lancashire. Those kits wouldn’t have featured cotton picked by slaves in the U.S. of A. No. No way. Lancastrian workers had principles. Rather than make a quick Queen Victoria penny, cotton mill workers took a stand. Southern b****ds from U.S.of A. were attacking their northern kin and union. The Confederacy could no longer count on cash from much of the north west of England. Unlike England’s Liverpool, where Confederate flags flew proudly. As some households went hungry, more than half of the mills and looms lay silent.


"I know and deeply deplore the sufferings which the working-men of Manchester, and in all Europe, are called to endure in this crisis” – letter: To the Working-men of Manchester, Abraham Lincoln.

Manchester’s Manchester Guardian opposed the blockades. It wanted to put food back on the people’s table. Yet, workers gathered in the Free Trade Hall stuck two fingers up at a proposal to drop the blockade. They backed Abraham Lincoln and his northern union. Starvation and destitution followed. A tad like how the prices of tomatoes have been on the rise after the U.K. backed the Ukraine, whilst simultaneously telling Europe to go away. As the army read the riot act, and Lincoln (the man, not the city) earned himself a future statue in Manchester, praising ”sublime Christian heroism”. Ships full of provisions were also sent, which was a relief for many in Manchester. Within two years slavery was added to the U.S. Constitution and Manchester’s mills were back pumping crap into the air, allowing families to feed themselves once again.

Abraham Lincoln’s fate wasn’t so pleasant and before he had chance to visit Manchester, he was gunned down. This process has been repeated a few times since and seems integral to U.S. culture. So, when The Guardian, The Daily Mail, etc. manipulate headlines to flag Manchester City, and even MUFC’s crest as being a symbol of slavery, they need to dig into their research skills and work on their journalistic talents before blindly printing misinformation. Even the Manchester Evening News and MUFC’s historian had the decency to highlight the city’s backing of the abolitionist movement. The Manchester Guardian, founder, John Edward Taylor had partnerships with slavers and their companies. History is littered with profits being made over humanity. Let’s learn from it. We’re better for it. We can’t hide our history!

Man U added their ship to a badge in 1902. City used Manchester’s heraldic design from 1894 to 1960. The ship on both is that of a merchant ship to symbolise the city’s link to the Manchester Ship Canal. The Guardian’s writer connects the ship to black history in an insulting an incorrect way. History matters. Get it right. Stop trying to revise history and change a country’s shame based on a misplaced reckoning.

The Guardian writer Simon Hattenstone even suggested the bee of Manchester’s industry replaces the ship. If he had been a tad more industrial in his research and knowledge, he may have published a more compelling argument. Instead, he created a woke debate and accidentally made The Sun look like a paper of good response. And to agree with Man Utd historian J.P. Neill, I close with this quote: “’Not only did the club badges long post-date the abolition of slavery, the clubs themselves were only founded decades after slavery was ended.”

Love it.

 

[Blue Llama]

The ship on Manchester's coat of arms was selected as one of the symbols to represent what Manchester was. The ship proudly represents Manchester as a port despite many obstacles not least the fact that it's 30+ miles from the sea. The UK parliament passed the law abolishing slavery in 1833. The Manchester Ship Canal linking Manchester to the sea was completed in 1893. No ship involved in the slave trade came anywhere near Manchester. That's not saying Manchester didn't profit from slaves but as we don't have a mill on our badge -SHUT THE FUCK UP.

 

[give it to gordon]

I wouldn't get wound up by this debate. The ship sailed long ago.

From my blog at https://acton28.blog/2023/04/22/shipahoy/

Dear Manchester, put your money where your mouth is, this slavery malarkey has to end. End of. Peace and love, Abe Lincoln (P.S. United don’t exist as a club yet, but they’ll probably worship the devil).

The above letter is a paraphrased example. Like much of the world Manchester was wearing the latest clothing of the time around that time. Gucci? Not born. Cotton? Everywhere. The bustling smog of Manchester coated moths, as much as provided clothing to men and women alike. Transgenders were around but less represented. It was, of course, different times. Cash was made. Lots of it.

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels had met in Manchester a few years earlier and released their Waterstones best seller The Condition of the Working Class in England. Jack Reacher novels were nowhere to be seen.

Turn-und Sportverein München von 1860 hadn’t even started kicking a football until 1899. Die Blauen had other sports, and all could have worn cotton garments made in Lancashire. Those kits wouldn’t have featured cotton picked by slaves in the U.S. of A. No. No way. Lancastrian workers had principles. Rather than make a quick Queen Victoria penny, cotton mill workers took a stand. Southern b****ds from U.S.of A. were attacking their northern kin and union. The Confederacy could no longer count on cash from much of the north west of England. Unlike England’s Liverpool, where Confederate flags flew proudly. As some households went hungry, more than half of the mills and looms lay silent.


"I know and deeply deplore the sufferings which the working-men of Manchester, and in all Europe, are called to endure in this crisis” – letter: To the Working-men of Manchester, Abraham Lincoln.

Manchester’s Manchester Guardian opposed the blockades. It wanted to put food back on the people’s table. Yet, workers gathered in the Free Trade Hall stuck two fingers up at a proposal to drop the blockade. They backed Abraham Lincoln and his northern union. Starvation and destitution followed. A tad like how the prices of tomatoes have been on the rise after the U.K. backed the Ukraine, whilst simultaneously telling Europe to go away. As the army read the riot act, and Lincoln (the man, not the city) earned himself a future statue in Manchester, praising ”sublime Christian heroism”. Ships full of provisions were also sent, which was a relief for many in Manchester. Within two years slavery was added to the U.S. Constitution and Manchester’s mills were back pumping crap into the air, allowing families to feed themselves once again.

Abraham Lincoln’s fate wasn’t so pleasant and before he had chance to visit Manchester, he was gunned down. This process has been repeated a few times since and seems integral to U.S. culture. So, when The Guardian, The Daily Mail, etc. manipulate headlines to flag Manchester City, and even MUFC’s crest as being a symbol of slavery, they need to dig into their research skills and work on their journalistic talents before blindly printing misinformation. Even the Manchester Evening News and MUFC’s historian had the decency to highlight the city’s backing of the abolitionist movement. The Manchester Guardian, founder, John Edward Taylor had partnerships with slavers and their companies. History is littered with profits being made over humanity. Let’s learn from it. We’re better for it. We can’t hide our history!

Man U added their ship to a badge in 1902. City used Manchester’s heraldic design from 1894 to 1960. The ship on both is that of a merchant ship to symbolise the city’s link to the Manchester Ship Canal. The Guardian’s writer connects the ship to black history in an insulting an incorrect way. History matters. Get it right. Stop trying to revise history and change a country’s shame based on a misplaced reckoning.

The Guardian writer Simon Hattenstone even suggested the bee of Manchester’s industry replaces the ship. If he had been a tad more industrial in his research and knowledge, he may have published a more compelling argument. Instead, he created a woke debate and accidentally made The Sun look like a paper of good response. And to agree with Man Utd historian J.P. Neill, I close with this quote: “’Not only did the club badges long post-date the abolition of slavery, the clubs themselves were only founded decades after slavery was ended.”

Yea so what you saying ;)

Truth doesn't sell papers and most mancs know our history and know the newspaper article was bollocks.
Sadly the truth gets over looked. I saw a Pier Morgan clip and the two women wouldnt take on board any of the facts. They just banged on about it being a slave ship. They didnt want to hear the TRUTH.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Yea so what you saying ;)

Truth doesn't sell papers and most mancs know our history and know the newspaper article was bollocks.
Sadly the truth gets over looked. I saw a Pier Morgan clip and the two women wouldnt take on board any of the facts. They just banged on about it being a slave ship. They didnt want to hear the TRUTH.

That was your fatal mistake. ;-)

 

[give it to gordon]

That was your fatal mistake. ;-)

I wouldnt normally agree with Morgan but he was spot on. Mention that Manchester was against the slave trade and supported the fight against it.

But these two ladies wouldnt have it. In their eyes it's a slave ship 100%. They were so blinkered and the truth didnt suit their 15 minutes of frame.

 

[Oystercatcher28]

I wouldnt normally agree with Morgan but he was spot on. Mention that Manchester was against the slave trade and supported the fight against it.

But these two ladies wouldnt have it. In their eyes it's a slave ship 100%. They were so blinkered and the truth didnt suit their 15 minutes of frame.

Don't believe the truth. Oasis even had a an album by the same title. The truth is out there. They're all in this conspiracy... but I fail to believe Pierce Morgan is on board. He doesn't have a spine strong enough to support his narrative. I bet he paid those actors to deny his argument. Worse still, he probably enslaved them. Possibly. Maybe. Not a legal accusation. I bet he owns a ship.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I wouldnt normally agree with Morgan but he was spot on. Mention that Manchester was against the slave trade and supported the fight against it.

But these two ladies wouldnt have it. In their eyes it's a slave ship 100%. They were so blinkered and the truth didnt suit their 15 minutes of frame.

People want to believe what is convenient and affirmative to their ideology, especially when not believing would force them to scrutinise their own thoughts and actions, and perhaps question their validility. It happens across the political spectrum.

I know they mean well—much more so than the moronic cunts across the way that hang Confederate flags and say they’re scouse not English, whatever that means—but they’re wholly misguided here, in my opinion.

We have a lot of good and bad history that should be discussed and debated more and this is just a nonsensical attempt at stoking culture wars to distract from retrospection that would actually make us a better city.

 

[give it to gordon]

People want to believe what is convenient and affirmative to their ideology, especially when not believing would force them to scrutinise their own thoughts and actions, and perhaps question their validility. It happens across the political spectrum.

I know they mean well—much more so than the moronic cunts across the way that hang Confederate flags and say they’re scouse not English, whatever that means—but they’re wholly misguided here, in my opinion.

We have a lot of good and bad history that should be discussed and debated more and this is just a nonsensical attempt at stoking culture wars to distract from retrospection that would actually make us a better city.

Yep but sadly the two women came across badly in my mind. Were rude, talked over the both men, even talked over each other. They made themselves look silly.

And it doesn't help the debate and most probably turns more people away from the debate as you cant debate with people like them.

I can remember being at college and we were discussing how to break down and remove black layer from the soil. Black layer is a layer of black soil that is anaerobic and causes a barrier for roots and is black in colour.
Next thing a student who is black kicks of big time about it being called black layer.

Thing is how far back do we go. I am ginger and way back were seen as witches. My mum never received an apology for gingers being killed for being witches. Gingers have been victimised for centuries in different countries !

And we still have the piss taken out of us ;)

We even have biscuits name after our genitals .....ginger nuts

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The ship on Manchester's coat of arms was selected as one of the symbols to represent what Manchester was. The ship proudly represents Manchester as a port despite many obstacles not least the fact that it's 30+ miles from the sea. The UK parliament passed the law abolishing slavery in 1833. The Manchester Ship Canal linking Manchester to the sea was completed in 1893. No ship involved in the slave trade came anywhere near Manchester. That's not saying Manchester didn't profit from slaves but as we don't have a mill on our badge -SHUT THE FUCK UP.

It was also put together/designed by two staunch abolitionists.