Paul Gascoigne

Damocles said:
So not a disease then. Smoking isn't a disease, it causes diseases.

Nothing that's a choice is a disease. You don't choose to have cancer or dementia. You do choose to drink.



I did say outside the physical addiction that's managed by the hospital.

People like the disease model because it reduces the responsibility of the person. My Gran died of drink, my Grandad always spoke about how she had this disease because its easier for him to think she was a victim rather than the more accurate idea that she just chose to drink knowing the harm it caused others around her. She didn’t care.

Someone said here that addiction takes over your life, and this is true. But every addict or former addict here will tell you that what I'm saying is right. You know exactly what you're doing and ultimately you make the choice to do it willingly.

Oh and the idea that addiction "triggers" never go away is just wrong. Again its not an illness. You weren't bitten by a vampire and now are fucked up for life. You just refused to put down the bottle or the needle.
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Im an addict. Well, perhaps ex addict to be precise but i still consider myself one as i need to else i could fuck up again even though its been 20 years i still have that fear. I think your wording is a bit harsh but on the whole i do agree with the points you make, in that nobody ever forced me to take drugs. I chose to go out, buy them and take them. Not once did i feel pressure from others to do so. So in that sense i agree. I was lucky in that i was very young when i was addicted so had youthfulness on my side to be able to bounce back which i did but even then it wasnt easy at all to stop. Took a good year of being clean before i felt i could stay off it permanently. So, whilst i agree in general, its not just a case of simply "dont buy it/dont drink it" there is a lot of work that needs doing to help create a normal life again.
 
Damocles said:
So not a disease then. Smoking isn't a disease, it causes diseases.

Nothing that's a choice is a disease. You don't choose to have cancer or dementia. You do choose to drink.



I did say outside the physical addiction that's managed by the hospital.

People like the disease model because it reduces the responsibility of the person. My Gran died of drink, my Grandad always spoke about how she had this disease because its easier for him to think she was a victim rather than the more accurate idea that she just chose to drink knowing the harm it caused others around her. She didn’t care.

Someone said here that addiction takes over your life, and this is true. But every addict or former addict here will tell you that what I'm saying is right. You know exactly what you're doing and ultimately you make the choice to do it willingly.

Oh and the idea that addiction "triggers" never go away is just wrong. Again its not an illness. You weren't bitten by a vampire and now are fucked up for life. You just refused to put down the bottle or the needle.
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This isn't a subject I know a lot about and I don't have your lived experience so please don't think I'm being argumentative. I thought I'd read there was evidence now that people can be genetically inclined and the way people's brains deal with the dopamine reward from substances and how quickly that 'rewires' the brain is different?

Doesn't invalidate anything you say re getting yourself straight but does suggest some people are much more vulnerable than others based on genes. So a disease in a similar way to being born with a genetic tendency to hypertension or even type 1 diabetes? As I say doesn't negate your comment about personal responsibility as you have to take responsibility for life adaptations in those situations too but arguably in some ways a more complicated chronic condition to have to manage because your brain chemistry is acting against your best interest?

Apologies if I've misrepresented or what I've said is inaccurate. We seem to be learning more each year about our genes and our brains but that's a whole separate subject.
 
xgorton said:
Cans of Breakers (Lager) very strong,my drink back in the late 70s in the Wellington pub West Gorton they filmed Shameless back along in that pub.
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city2 said:
Use to love Breakers
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I used to work for Bass, who owned Breaker (don’t think it’s made any more). It was an American style ‘malt liquor’ and it was really good, I’d often pick up a case from the staff shop. For some reason, that no one ever really figured out, it was huge in the gay community. The vast majority of sales were to gay clubs. There were a couple in town that ordered pallets of it every week.
 
roman totale said:
I used to work for Bass, who owned Breaker (don’t think it’s made any more). It was an American style ‘malt liquor’ and it was really good, I’d often pick up a case from the staff shop. For some reason, that no one ever really figured out, it was huge in the gay community. The vast majority of sales were to gay clubs. There were a couple in town that ordered pallets of it every week.
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My dad worked for Bass in Runcorn and used to bring home 48 free cans a month - i loved Bass Shandy and because the Guinness factory was next door we were never short of alcohol.
 
xgorton said:
Cans of Breakers (Lager) very strong,my drink back in the late 70s in the Wellington pub West Gorton they filmed Shameless back along in that pub.
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I used to deliver dodgy spirits there back in the late 70 s used to know the land lady

For the life of me can’t remember her bloody name now…. Might have been Barbara
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
It a disease caused by life choices, in the same way smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease.
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Not just life choices though. In 1973 as a 14 year old schoolboy one of our teachers brought a newspaper into our French Studies class, it was at the height of the Yom Kippur war between Israel and Egypt and Syria, backed by the USA and The Soviet Union respectively. The USA had moved to Defcon 3 due to tensions over the war and the newspaper headline was “world on the brink”. Our Teacher who was an absolute bastard told us to prepare to be killed in an imminent nuclear conflict, he also said if we survived this one the odds were we’d all die in a future nuclear war. He was about 50 years old at the time, telling kids of 14/15 they had no future.

That 10/15 minutes had a devastating effect on me, I lost my ambitions, I couldn’t sleep at night and my schooling went down the drain, my dear mum was so worried about me I was asked to see a counsellor at School. I couldn’t bring myself to say why my personality had changed and I eventually left school at 16 with very poor grades after being one of the top academic pupils in my class, (maths being my favourite subject).

Cue four years later, I’m working as a trainee Cost Accountant after joining a company as a Junior Wages Clerk, I’m still haunted every night when I go to bed about being nuked, I’m not particularly religious but I said a prayer every night asking for it not to happen. I then start having a pint or four at a Club run by my mate’s mum and dad, hey presto, I get to sleep a lot better due to the booze. This carried on and I drank more and more, it was a miracle cure, a real crutch.

I’m now 66 and still drink but nothing like I did in my younger days, I still have anxiety over world events especially like we currently have and I stay away from the news to avoid worry. However there was a possibility I could have destroyed myself with the drink many years ago, I managed to curtail my input but I’d say it was touch and go at one stage. I fully understand why people use booze/drugs (never used the latter) to get through life, one of my close friends has Ascitis through drinking excessively and personal issues has caused him real problems that’s led him to his life shortening situation.

So, sorry for the long post but we’re all different and addiction is not a simple issue, there’s all kinds of factors that contribute and some are susceptible whilst others aren’t.

The teacher was Mr Williamson at Hartshead School, he’ll be dead now and I hope he rots in hell.
 
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