pep guardiola

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BigOscar said:
He builds his team up to reach their peak in the second season, then it falls apart after that. If the league he is in is weak enough, then he wins the title in the first year as well as part of the building process, but he never manages to keep his team at the top of their game after that second season. He either bails or fails after that.
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I don't think this is a fair comment at all. At Porto he built a great team and a lot of the players that left went on to have very good careers and were in their prime. Carvalho and Ferreira at Chelsea whilst Deco went to Barca. Maniche would soon leave too. Understandably he left for a bigger job, but who knows if he could rebuild.

At Chelsea the team he built only really came to an end after 2012. They continued to have great success and won everything in football. The point can be brought up he left, but this was more Abramovic's fault than Mourinho's. If I remember straight it was Pepe, that Mourinho wanted. Chelsea lacked defensive cover and needed Pepe. Abramovic then went and wasted all the budget on Shevchenko, who like Torres was past it. They fell out and he left. At the same time by luck more than any judgement (signing Ronaldo was a fluke) United had just built the strongest team the Premiership and arguably England as a whole had seen led by the arguably the best player to ever play in this country.

Then at Inter he was remit was not to build a team, but to deliver the CL. The Inter team had won everything and Moratti wanted just one thing. Understandably after winning everything in the game (but failing at the world cup) the players lacked motivation and the team had to be rebuilt.

At Madrid he built another super team which could have lasted for many years. Here is where he deserves the blame, because the problems with the players led to the team underachieving and him ultimately being sacked.

Chelsea is supposed to be the club of his heart and we will see how he can do in the long term. He can certainly build great teams better than any other manager. I believe he can last and see those teams through, but we will see.


As for Guardiola I will judge him after how Bayern do in the CL. If he fails to win the CL then he has failed at Bayern. Guardiola has inherited for me 2/3 great teams in recent times (Barca/Bayern/Miland 90s). At Barca he did freshen and motivate the players, but the core of the squad were still there. Most importantly Rjikaard had already bled Iniesta/Messi through the difficult development stage; resting them and not rushing them back. At Bayern he has taken over the strongest team in history for me and overseen one of their most humiliating results. Without doubt Mourinho is the better manager, but Guardiola is still young and we will see what he has learnt with Bayern.

At the moment if I was a City fan I would want Ancelotti (winning leagues is a problem, but the CL is his trophy) and Simeone before Guardiola.
 
dannybcity said:
I'm no cynic said:
Our men at the top know him well enough, and that has a very strong bearing on where he stands when his Bayern contract expires. My only worry is that his two clubs are/were in already dominant positions when he landed those jobs, whereas if he came to us then he would likely need to do a re-building job to match, let alone dominate, at least four other clubs in our own league, and the pressures will be strong. We may need to recruit another name before then if Pellegrini lets things slip. Who, I don't know, but Simeone is the latest to be linked and his current players know how to scrap for their results, and perhaps he could be the next manager until Pep finally decides his time at Bayern is over.
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I'm by no means a frequent La Liga watcher but isn't Simeone tactically more of a 'build from the back' kind of manager? I'd be surprised if the powers that be appointed a defensively minded manager when Pellegrini was apparently appointed in order to get us playing a more attacking style of football.
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That's a fair point and the whole concept [according to Txiki] is to build a 4-3-3 way of playing at all levels of the club, and if we get to achieve that then it will be easier to work our most promising kids through the system and into the first team and hopefully make the playing side of City self-sufficient without ever thinking of FFP again. But as we all know, the really great teams are built from the back first and then through the midfield before the icing on the cake up front. Their are plenty of Mourinho fans on these threads, and although he isn't my cup of tea, I have to accept that even with the fortune that his club has had to spend ever since the oligarch bought his club, the overwhelming success that Mourinho has brought has come from a willingness to dig in and battle for everything, and if it brings in a dozen consecutive dour 1-0 victories rather than a couple of 5-0 wins and a couple of defeats in that spell, Mourinho will always go for the wins first. Maybe Simeone would be of that same mindset.
 
Guardiola is the best fit for City's structure (whole Club plays the same way with attacking brand of football, youth teams and first team) and can work without total control over everything etc. Simeone wouldn't fit that bill.

So I hope we get Guardiola in the summer of 2016, because I think he will see his contract out at Bayern and Pellegrini will do the same here.
 
I'm no cynic said:
dannybcity said:
I'm no cynic said:
Our men at the top know him well enough, and that has a very strong bearing on where he stands when his Bayern contract expires. My only worry is that his two clubs are/were in already dominant positions when he landed those jobs, whereas if he came to us then he would likely need to do a re-building job to match, let alone dominate, at least four other clubs in our own league, and the pressures will be strong. We may need to recruit another name before then if Pellegrini lets things slip. Who, I don't know, but Simeone is the latest to be linked and his current players know how to scrap for their results, and perhaps he could be the next manager until Pep finally decides his time at Bayern is over.
Click to expand...

I'm by no means a frequent La Liga watcher but isn't Simeone tactically more of a 'build from the back' kind of manager? I'd be surprised if the powers that be appointed a defensively minded manager when Pellegrini was apparently appointed in order to get us playing a more attacking style of football.
Click to expand...
That's a fair point and the whole concept [according to Txiki] is to build a 4-3-3 way of playing at all levels of the club, and if we get to achieve that then it will be easier to work our most promising kids through the system and into the first team and hopefully make the playing side of City self-sufficient without ever thinking of FFP again. But as we all know, the really great teams are built from the back first and then through the midfield before the icing on the cake up front. Their are plenty of Mourinho fans on these threads, and although he isn't my cup of tea, I have to accept that even with the fortune that his club has had to spend ever since the oligarch bought his club, the overwhelming success that Mourinho has brought has come from a willingness to dig in and battle for everything, and if it brings in a dozen consecutive dour 1-0 victories rather than a couple of 5-0 wins and a couple of defeats in that spell, Mourinho will always go for the wins first. Maybe Simeone would be of that same mindset.
Click to expand...

Txiki's 'all levels 4-3-3' is one of the weirdest and most enduring myths of modern day Manchester City. Some junior coach speculated about two years ago and it got twisted into a little peice of tabloid gossip. But City fans still quote it as fact.

I think the fact that over that two years I've seen city teams in pretty much every formation but that one speaks volumes.

A 'club formation' would be lunacy.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I'm no cynic said:
dannybcity said:
I'm by no means a frequent La Liga watcher but isn't Simeone tactically more of a 'build from the back' kind of manager? I'd be surprised if the powers that be appointed a defensively minded manager when Pellegrini was apparently appointed in order to get us playing a more attacking style of football.
Click to expand...
That's a fair point and the whole concept [according to Txiki] is to build a 4-3-3 way of playing at all levels of the club, and if we get to achieve that then it will be easier to work our most promising kids through the system and into the first team and hopefully make the playing side of City self-sufficient without ever thinking of FFP again. But as we all know, the really great teams are built from the back first and then through the midfield before the icing on the cake up front. Their are plenty of Mourinho fans on these threads, and although he isn't my cup of tea, I have to accept that even with the fortune that his club has had to spend ever since the oligarch bought his club, the overwhelming success that Mourinho has brought has come from a willingness to dig in and battle for everything, and if it brings in a dozen consecutive dour 1-0 victories rather than a couple of 5-0 wins and a couple of defeats in that spell, Mourinho will always go for the wins first. Maybe Simeone would be of that same mindset.
Click to expand...

Txiki's 'all levels 4-3-3' is one of the weirdest and most enduring myths of modern day Manchester City. Some junior coach speculated about two years ago and it got twisted into a little peice of tabloid gossip. But City fans still quote it as fact.

I think the fact that over that two years I've seen city teams in pretty much every formation but that one speaks volumes.

A 'club formation' would be lunacy.
Click to expand...

I think this is the quote:

"We want to play good football, beautiful football in the sense of ball possession and managing the concepts of football which can give you a good show. That means in the youth academy we haven't changed anything. The basic formation is 4-3-3 because that is the one which allows you to teach the kids how to play this kind of football.

When it goes to the first team, the manager can make as many changes as he wants but normally what shouldn't happen is that he will make radical changes, will start to develop a kind of football involving lots of long balls etc. We are not telling the manager how to do his job, we are just providing for the manager of the first team to fill the young ranks with technically skilled players who are talented enough to play this kind of football. He can do that as he wants."
 
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