Pep's tactics

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I hope not. I had pretty close ties to Penn State back in the day and the 2 are very, very different. Paterno tactically was more like Ferguson tbh, bring in a solid no.2 every few years with differing ideas. Guardiola is definitely more a man who will immerse himself in a system, find what works and then add something unique to make it essentially his own.

Sarcasm bud.... The mans legacy isn't worth shit after Jerry Sandusky...

Like I said earlier, Lombardi is the comparable for me, his packer sweep (power sweep), was adapted from his experiences with Blake at the Giants, pep has evolved his tactics in the same way!

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Cruyff, people. Pep is a disciple of Cruyff who learned from Rinus MIchels.

Americans comparing Pep's tactics to American football, hard to fathom but I suppose City has attracted followers from across the pond - the game & many of the philosophies that make it great have nothing to do with the other game

Extremely ignorant of you, it most definitely is a melting pot of other sports...

And I'm a Manc, mate, it has nothing to do with nationality, everything to do with evolution....

 

[OB1]

Yeh to be honest mate, I would write the formation down as 433. For me the classic 443 shape has one deep midfielder and 2 number 8s in front, the shape of the classic Barca team.

Reading Pep Confidential, apparently in Germany this formation is known as 4141. But that's when he says the line about "telephone numbers". How you refer to the shape isn't really important, it's the benefits it gives you that is important.

By having one midfielder who sits deeper it automatically creates more passing lines. The "pivote" / number 6 : holding midfielder, whatever you want to call it, creates a triangle shape with the centre backs, the full backs and the two number 8s. The position is key to most of Pep's teams as it avoids a lot of useless square balls that often get played in a flat 2 man midfield.

I'm sure he's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve, I can't wait to see them, it's going to be a fascinating season!

The telephone numbers line is an apt one because the shape changes as those pesky players move about and often very much depends on whether a team is on the attack or defending but they provide a short hand for the purposes of discussion. I'm not going to get into a prolonged debate about 4-3-3 vs 4-1-4-1: you pays your money and takes your choice. I will say though that if you accept we had a back four on the field of two FB's and two CB's, you had a distinct horizontal line of Sterling, KDB, Silva and Nolito with Kun a pronounced distance ahead and Dinho likewise behind if you look at average positions so 4-1-4-1 edges it for me; plus I see Nolito and Sterling more as attacking wide midfielders than strikers.

You are right about the pivote.

Any way, I'm off to reread Pep Confidential. Great to know there's a second volume coming.

 

[Shaelumstash]

The telephone numbers line is an apt one because the shape changes as those pesky players move about and often very much depends on whether a team is on the attack or defending but they provide a short hand for the purposes of discussion. I'm not going to get into a prolonged debate about 4-3-3 vs 4-1-4-1: you pays your money and takes your choice. I will say though that if you accept we had a back four on the field of two FB's and two CB's, you had a distinct horizontal line of Sterling, KDB, Silva and Nolito with Kun a pronounced distance ahead and Dinho likewise behind if you look at average positions so 4-1-4-1 edges it for me; plus I see Nolito and Sterling more as attacking wide midfielders than strikers.

You are right about the pivote.

Any way, I'm off to reread Pep Confidential. Great to know there's a second volume coming.

Is there genuinely a volume 2 coming by the same author? That will be fascinating.

Yeh for me 433 and 4141 is the exact same shape, it's just personal preference how you write it down. In Barcelona they call it 433 and in Munich they call it 4141. Same same but different.

Personally if I see 4 being noted for midfield it automatically makes me think it's a flat 4, same as a flat back 4. Like 442 being the Shite's classic shape under Fergurson. Those wingers had to get right back to cover the full back and work up and down the line. More like wide midfielders that out and out wingers. You couldn't see Messi or Neymar in that role.

By calling it 433 to me it means the wingers are treated more as attacking players. They start very wide and very high. Of course they still work hard and drop back to help out, but not as much as they would in a 4 man midfield.

Sterling's role for is more like wide attacker like Neymar than wide midfielder like Steve Stone imo, that's why I'd go for 433 as opposed to 4141.

 

[without a dream]

Yeh to be honest mate, I would write the formation down as 433. For me the classic 443 shape has one deep midfielder and 2 number 8s in front, the shape of the classic Barca team.

Reading Pep Confidential, apparently in Germany this formation is known as 4141. But that's when he says the line about "telephone numbers". How you refer to the shape isn't really important, it's the benefits it gives you that is important.

By having one midfielder who sits deeper it automatically creates more passing lines. The "pivote" / number 6 : holding midfielder, whatever you want to call it, creates a triangle shape with the centre backs, the full backs and the two number 8s. The position is key to most of Pep's teams as it avoids a lot of useless square balls that often get played in a flat 2 man midfield.

I'm sure he's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve, I can't wait to see them, it's going to be a fascinating season!

In attack it's very similar the old W-M formation used in the early days of football. Ignoring the names for the positions this is essentially how we line up in attack.

EDIT

It's obviously fluid and people don't hold their positions but when we have the ball with the keeper that's a pretty good approximation.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Extremely ignorant of you, it most definitely is a melting pot of other sports...

And I'm a Manc, mate, it has nothing to do with nationality, everything to do with evolution....

Lets not forget Pep has a coach on staff who is a netball coach by profession.

 

[flb]

the refreshing thing was that Zabba looked far more comfortable in that inside FB position than Sagna did-early days I know but Zabba looks refreshed under Pep now.

 

[Shaelumstash]

In attack it's very similar the old W-M formation used in the early days of football. Ignoring the names for the positions this is essentially how we line up in attack.

EDIT

It's obviously fluid and people don't hold their positions but when we have the ball with the keeper that's a pretty good approximation.

Yeh you're absolutely right mate. Especially on Saturday when the full backs were tucking in and Fernandinho was dropping back in to the back line.

Funny how these things coms back around. Not seen the WM formation since reading Nappers Golden Goals in Primary school, and he got it from the 1950s I think! Way ahead of his time was Napper.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Sarcasm bud.... The mans legacy isn't worth shit after Jerry Sandusky...

Like I said earlier, Lombardi is the comparable for me, his packer sweep (power sweep), was adapted from his experiences with Blake at the Giants, pep has evolved his tactics in the same way!

You dont have to tell me about that, I nearly lost my job over it at the time, having been at a lunch in his honour only a month before it all kicked off.

I'd say from my pov as an ex coach that what Pep does is fundamentally different in that Pep allows the opponents to dictate his approach. We actually arent trying to impose our philsophy on a team. Rather, we wait to see what they do and if the opponent does a) then we do b) and so on. It's very close in philosophy to either option football or the run and shoot offense with a "take what they give you" approach.

 

[Johnny_on]

Is there genuinely a volume 2 coming by the same author? That will be fascinating.