PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

halfcenturyup said:
Good post, but the more I hear about what people are hearing, the more I reckon what people are hearing isn't what there is to hear, if indeed there is anything, but what people want them to hear. If you see what I mean.

In particular, I am struggling with the idea that the award will be issued without the opportunity for the club and the PL to suggest redactions, for example. Or that people will hear from the club when the award is received.

This isn't pooh-poohing the information given in good faith, or the posters giving it. All information is welcome. I am just struggling with it.
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Why do you think the procedure would be different from any of the other cases that the PL have referred to the IC?

I'm also struggling to understand why either the PL or City would care too much about the confidentiality of procedural elements of the process. If there's going to be a period in time where the parties have the decision but it is embargoed, then they'd lose nothing by being open about that. Whether the decision comes out on the day it's received or delayed by a period in time, there's no reason for that to be secret or for anyone to play games about it.
 
mexico1970 said:
The biggest problems the PL face are from their red brethren, it wont end with this decision until the whole cartel is burned down it'll just move to something else.

You're thinking morally, these people have no morals mate.
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Would normally agree but, I think they’ve burned the whole house down by going for 115. Should we be successful, they’ve actually got nowhere else to go. Had they been selective, they might well have kept come back every other year but all their eggs are in a giant basket, sitting atop Beetham tower, with a gale force wind blowing!
 
flb said:
Surely the IC give their verdict to both parties then its up to said parties how and when it becomes public? Hence suggesting that the verdict will become public knowledge after the season finishes?
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All of this is wrapped up in procedure. Whatever the verdict, the league and City can't sit on it simply because the news is inconvenient to one side or the other. How you make it public won't change the outcome of any part of it either. I think because this has gone on so long, people are getting jumpy about the whole thing and maybe there's an element of expectation management in the idea that the parties have the decision but we don't know it yet. That just isn't true for a myriad of reasons.

I would bet that a) if either side had the verdict it would've leaked (not necessarily the outcome but the fact that both parties have the verdict and b) when the verdict is delivered it'll quickly become clear that both sides were given it within 24/48 hours maximum of it being made public. Obviously happy to be proven wrong when the time comes!
 
Basic queries but are we to presume that if there are say c a. 115 charges there will be ca. 115 verdicts?
Secondly, presuming some of the rules at the time were found to be illegal, how will these be treated if pertenant to any of the charges?
 
BillyShears said:
All of this is wrapped up in procedure. Whatever the verdict, the league and City can't sit on it simply because the news is inconvenient to one side or the other. How you make it public won't change the outcome of any part of it either. I think because this has gone on so long, people are getting jumpy about the whole thing and maybe there's an element of expectation management in the idea that the parties have the decision but we don't know it yet. That just isn't true for a myriad of reasons.

I would bet that a) if either side had the verdict it would've leaked (not necessarily the outcome but the fact that both parties have the verdict and b) when the verdict is delivered it'll quickly become clear that both sides were given it within 24/48 hours maximum of it being made public. Obviously happy to be proven wrong when the time comes!
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You are one message away from a landmark, Mr Shears. Use it wisely :)
 
BillyShears said:
Why do you think the procedure would be different from any of the other cases that the PL have referred to the IC?

I'm also struggling to understand why either the PL or City would care too much about the confidentiality of procedural elements of the process. If there's going to be a period in time where the parties have the decision but it is embargoed, then they'd lose nothing by being open about that. Whether the decision comes out on the day it's received or delayed by a period in time, there's no reason for that to be secret or for anyone to play games about it.
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I don't think the procedure will be different. I think the procedure will be exactly the same as any other Section W referral. An embargoed award with a short period to suggest corrections / redactions. Possibly a slightly longer than normal period due to the length of the award and the complexity / sensitivity of the issues.

Why do I think there will be no leaks about the release of the embargoed award? Firstly, because it is confidential under the rules. Secondly, because the club doesn't leak unless it has to. Thirdly, because the PL seem to be very careful about leaks as well after their APT faux-pas.

I just don't think it's in anyone's interest to breach confidentiality rules with a second hearing coming up to discuss costs at a minimum and possibly a sanction or two. I also can't imagine either the PL or the club wants to be bombarded by questions from cunts in the press about what is in the embargoed award if it is announced or leaked for the sake of a few days.

All this assuming the liability award will be published at all .....

Happy to accept I may be completely wrong. It has been known.
 
halfcenturyup said:
I don't think the procedure will be different. I think the procedure will be exactly the same as any other Section W referral. An embargoed award with a short period to suggest corrections / redactions. Possibly a slightly longer than normal period due to the length of the award and the complexity / sensitivity of the issues.
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On the idea of confidentiality, there's no breach of confidence to say that the decision has been communicated to the lawyers. Especially when there's such a frenzy for information. I have absolutely not seen anything from the Premier League around this case or any case referred to the IC to suggest that they aren't prepared to speak to the media off the record. Hell, Masters spoke on the record about the judgement coming in Spring and it being out of his hands and in the hands of the IC. I appreciate you see it differently, but from my vantage point the only certainty right now is neither side has the decisions and when it comes, the fact that it has come will be public within a day or two maximum.
 
BillyShears said:
On the idea of confidentiality, there's no breach of confidence to say that the decision has been communicated to the lawyers. Especially when there's such a frenzy for information. I have absolutely not seen anything from the Premier League around this case or any case referred to the IC to suggest that they aren't prepared to speak to the media off the record. Hell, Masters spoke on the record about the judgement coming in Spring and it being out of his hands and in the hands of the IC. I appreciate you see it differently, but from my vantage point the only certainty right now is neither side has the decisions and when it comes, the fact that it has come will be public within a day or two maximum.
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Happy 10,000 mate. ;)
 
BillyShears said:
On the idea of confidentiality, there's no breach of confidence to say that the decision has been communicated to the lawyers. Especially when there's such a frenzy for information. I have absolutely not seen anything from the Premier League around this case or any case referred to the IC to suggest that they aren't prepared to speak to the media off the record. Hell, Masters spoke on the record about the judgement coming in Spring and it being out of his hands and in the hands of the IC. I appreciate you see it differently, but from my vantage point the only certainty right now is neither side has the decisions and when it comes, the fact that it has come will be public within a day or two maximum.
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Considering one of the chief reasons City gave CAS for non cooperation was that the process was about as watertight as my granny's tights, and the rolling confidentiality shenanigans with this set of charges (and other PL shite), the i can't imagine the release of the verdict being anything but guarded under an iron fist.
 
SilverFox2 said:
Well I for one hupe it is true because I like to believe they are still trawling through all the legal stuff and writing it down BEFORE they reach a verdict.
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If (albeit a vanishingly remote possibility) we are demoted and accept the sanction during this season, the impact on other clubs as our performance in remaining games inevitably declines will be arguably significant - although decreasing with the number of fixtures left. I may have missed it but has this potentially very litigous issue been discussed in preceding pages?
 
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BillyShears said:
On the idea of confidentiality, there's no breach of confidence to say that the decision has been communicated to the lawyers. Especially when there's such a frenzy for information. I have absolutely not seen anything from the Premier League around this case or any case referred to the IC to suggest that they aren't prepared to speak to the media off the record. Hell, Masters spoke on the record about the judgement coming in Spring and it being out of his hands and in the hands of the IC. I appreciate you see it differently, but from my vantage point the only certainty right now is neither side has the decisions and when it comes, the fact that it has come will be public within a day or two maximum.
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Personally, I think the confidentiality rules have always been pretty clear. Hell, the PL didn't even want to announce that there was an investigation. But they have tried to be clever a couple of times, and careless as well once or twice. I think they have learned their lesson, though.

I remember, back in the day, when I was involved in a couple of IPOs and significant acquisitions/ mergers that documents that were particularly confidential / sensitive didn't even enter the company's servers. They were communicated lawyer to lawyer and executives had to physically relocate to read them off-site. Given how this whole thing started that may be a good way to go about it now, tbh :)

Not sure if times have changed.

Anyway, apart from the announcement / leak of an embargoed award, we seem to agree on what will happen. Hooray :)
 
johnny crossan said:
If (albeit a vanishingly remote possibility) we are demoted and accept the sanction during this season, the impact on other clubs as our performance in remaining games declines will be arguably significant - although decreasing with the number of fixtures left. I may have missed it but has this potentially very litigous issue been discussed in preceding pages?
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Although, the current bottom 3 would all get a bit better, at least in the short term.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Personally, I think the confidentiality rules have always been pretty clear. Hell, the PL didn't even want to announce that there was an investigation. But they have tried to be clever a couple of times, and careless as well once or twice. I think they have learned their lesson, though.

I remember, back in the day, when I was involved in a couple of IPOs and significant acquisitions/ mergers that documents that were particularly confidential / sensitive didn't even enter the company's servers. They were communicated lawyer to lawyer and executives had to physically relocate to read them off-site. Given how this whole thing started that may be a good way to go about it now, tbh :)

Not sure if times have changed.

Anyway, apart from the announcement / leak of an embargoed award, we seem to agree on what will happen. Hooray :)
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Unfortunately I don't think the Premier League have the sort of joined up thinking that you are crediting them with :) If Soriano doesn't even attend PL meetings anymore and Cliff goes in his place, then it's pretty clear to me that the hostility on both sides is such that once an award is given, whoever wins, is leaking that shit immediately.
 
I think now that March has been and gone, and with that the only hint at a potential timeline being that loose comment from Pep, we can go from a day by day expectation of the verdict being delivered, back to a week by week or even a monthly one now.
 
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