PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

mancboy said:
The thing about these articles that make me laugh is that they are written by a sports reporter with zero understanding of complex financial accounting methods and yet they still feel qualified to comment on them just like they do on football which they also have no understanding of, the level of ego it must take to write about things that you have no understanding of is incredible and the fact that the press let them do it is even more shameful, next it will be some dickhead of youtube presenting question time because vibes innit
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Whe you put it like that, it is actually preposterous. The ****’s certainly got some brass neck.
 
projectriver said:
Very little of this very long ramble is correct. You should assume that top lawyers on both sides will conduct a quasi tribal based on thousands of disclosed documents, witnesses of fact and third party experts. Yes, things started with a hack but we are far beyond that now.

Of course, your opinion is your prerogative but others readers shouldn’t take much comfort from this type of post. The PL and its processes are absolutely not toothless - as we have seen and as we continue to see. From a civil perspective, the rules offer the PL initially and then an IC dangerously broad powers in fact. Again as we have seen. Worth you reading the FAQ.

PS your premise is wrong anyway. The PL briefed “115 CHARGES” so they have happily stated that word. Not that anything turns on it.
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My posts are in response to your continued hyperbole which I've characterised because you've completely overlooked the following:

No police. No HMRC. No SFO. No accusation of fraud. Nothing. Why?

I'm aware of the disclosure process, yet some say we're facing non-cooperation charges which suggests no disclosure (whether timely or not). Go figure.

The PL are coming at us with essentially the same breaches UEFA did. CAS threw them out on appeal because of a lack of evidence. So where've the PL suddenly got this new damining evidence from, over & above what UEFA had?

As for the several legal terms issues "Charges" is the only one you found? I looked & all I could find was others referring to our breaches as charges not the PL. A link to where you found it would settle that one.

I'll leave you to explain to everyone what's taking HMRC so long to feel our collar, seeing as the Der Spiegel allegations were brought to their attention SIX years ago.

Screenshot_20240430_091332_Chrome.jpg

'We're carrying out visits to every Premier League club and most Football League clubs, along with their players. We're currently making enquiries into 171 footballers, 44 football clubs and 31 agents for a range of issues, including image rights abuse.

Asked by if it would investigate Mancini's work for Al Jazira to establish it was legitimate, HMRC said it does not comment on 'identifiable taxpayers'.

'We are clear that everyone must pay their fair share of tax. The vast majority of taxpayers pay the right amount of tax on time, including those in the football industry.

However, HMRC is relentless in pursuing those who do not play by the rules. HMRC rigorously enforces the rules and has brought in £332million in extra tax by tackling non-compliance in the football industry.'

Many people are making capital, gaining clicks, viewers or becoming famous out of Manchester City fans' misery in respects to these breaches, & they need to stop it as it's terrifying the crap out of many of our faithful fans.

Again... No police. No HMRC. No SFO. No accusation of fraud. Nothing.

Let's start connecting the dots beginning with you explaining why, seeing as it's evident the details of Der Spiegel's claims have been brought to the attention of the authorities since at least November 2018?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...relentless-pursuing-club-tried-dodge-tax.html
 
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Dribble said:
So seeing as much of this info is already in the public domain, what are HMRC, the SFO & the police waiting for? Like the recent situation with Angela Rayner, why haven't we been reported by someone and/or had our collar felt yet because the authorities have become aware of City's potential criminality?

Are you seriously suggesting the UK Statutory Authorities are waiting for the Premier League's Independent Commission to do their job for them, before they strike & move in to raid the Etihad & slap the bracelets on our Executives?



Civil Law is concerned with the rights & property of individual people or organisations, & settles disputes between them, so this could extend to infinity over the most petty of disputes including who owns a pet, or if a neighbour's overhanging tree is encroaching on your property. Let's be honest about the very serious to ultra petty scope of UK Civil disputes here.

As far as I'm aware, only the CPS, police & certain statutory bodies can "charge" people in the UK, & this relates to criminal matters & covers several civil matters too.

When did the PL "charge" City? Have they ever used the "legal" term in respect to us? If not, why? All I've heard from the PL is "allegations" & "breaches".



They are "breaches" it's a "hearing" & there's nothing "legal" about it, unless/until a statutory body moves in to investigate with a view to issuing criminal or civil proceedings.

People can use whatever terms they like in reference to these breaches. My point is it's way beyond semantics as to why the PL have (in my opinion) carefully chosen not to. You believe there's nothing in this, but I believe this is absolutely crucial to properly understanding the alleged breaches & the resultant IC hearing.

I too got myself so deep in the forest that I couldn't see the wood for the trees. Yes, I fully support Manchester City, not just as a City fan, but because after getting out of the forest & taking a global overview, I saw these allegations very differently.

The very careful language used by the PL, the fact this has been played out so publicly but yet no statutory body has been complained to, or been on contact with City (to our knowledge) is critical to understanding my viewpoint.

To my knowledge the PL have never used the words "fraud" "charges" "case" "legal" or "guilty" against us & I suspect there's a VERY good reason why.

The PL aren't a statutory body, so are toothless in actual UK Law. They have no legal duty to find us "guilty" or "not guilty", & will just about be able to find us "liable" or "not liable", & even then only in the literal sense of the words, & not the legal sense.

Now I could be wrong here, so I'd appreciate it if you could provide counter empirical evidence to the contrary if you think I am. I don't mind my assertations being challenged & found to be in error, because at the very least it will help settle the minds of millions of worried City fans one way or the other.

Essentially, you feel City are on the verge of very serious legal jeopardy which will put our very PL existence in peril if we're found "guilty" of the "charges".

I feel these are jumped up allegations by a private members club who have about as much clout as the Wheel Tappers & Shunters Social Club's executive committee.

The PL's evidence is based on hacked & spliced emails from which they've formed suppositions & made subsequent allegations.

I think where we can both agree is that the level of cogency required to find us liable is seriously high, & for City's first batch of evidence, we've presented our audited, verified company accounts for starters.

Over to you, the Premier League & their Independent Commission.
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There's a lot of feeling in there.
 
KS55 said:
11 managers in 12 years, poor overpriced recruitment, poor player sales, spending money they haven’t got, debts mounting. Was Swales their president?
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Hang on. I thought fan ownership was a panacea, ensuring all clubs were answerable to their members and run responsibly?
 
mancboy said:
The thing about these articles that make me laugh is that they are written by a sports reporter with zero understanding of complex financial accounting methods and yet they still feel qualified to comment on them just like they do on football which they also have no understanding of, the level of ego it must take to write about things that you have no understanding of is incredible and the fact that the press let them do it is even more shameful, next it will be some dickhead of youtube presenting question time because vibes innit
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I think part of the problem these days is people don't understand or want expert views or that just by being on line the assumption is you have expertise because you wouldn't dare state stuff, if it wasn't true - maybe it's a mixture of the two.
There are still a lot of people who believe things in newspapers are actually all true with no bias, yet here we have a guy who apparently hasn't even heard of Companies House - or god forbid, is being 'disingenuous'!
 
Dribble said:
My posts are in response to your continued hyperbole which I've characterised because you've completely overlooked the following:

No police. No HMRC. No SFO. No accusation of fraud. Nothing. Why?

I'm aware of the disclosure process, yet some say we're facing non-cooperation charges which suggests no disclosure (whether timely or not). Go figure.

The PL are coming at us with essentially the same breaches UEFA did. CAS threw them out on appeal because of a lack of evidence. So where've the PL suddenly got this new damining evidence from, over & above what UEFA had?

As for "Charges", I looked & all I could find was others referring to our breaches as charges not the PL. A link to where you found it would settle that one.

I'll leave you to explain to everyone what's taking HMRC so long to feel our collar, seeing as the Der Spiegel allegations were brought to their attention SIX years ago.

View attachment 116753

'We're carrying out visits to every Premier League club and most Football League clubs, along with their players. We're currently making enquiries into 171 footballers, 44 football clubs and 31 agents for a range of issues, including image rights abuse.

Asked by if it would investigate Mancini's work for Al Jazira to establish it was legitimate, HMRC said it does not comment on 'identifiable taxpayers'.

'We are clear that everyone must pay their fair share of tax. The vast majority of taxpayers pay the right amount of tax on time, including those in the football industry.

However, HMRC is relentless in pursuing those who do not play by the rules. HMRC rigorously enforces the rules and has brought in £332million in extra tax by tackling non-compliance in the football industry.'

Many people are making capital, gaining clicks, viewers or becoming famous out of Manchester City fans' misery in respects to these breaches, & they need to stop it as it's terrifying the crap out of many of our faithful fans.

Again... No police. No HMRC. No SFO. No accusation of fraud. Nothing.

Let's start connecting the dots beginning with you explaining why, seeing as it's evident the details of Der Spiegel's claims have been brought to the attention of the authorities since at least November 2018?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...relentless-pursuing-club-tried-dodge-tax.html
Click to expand...
I like to hear what stefan says because it's fact based and informative.
You are quoting the Daily Mail. And why does he have to explain to everyone? Wtf is this bollocks.
 
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