PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[goatinho]

Pep gone on twitter?

 

[Burtonblue]

Here he is on his charger, Cœur de Lion.

His charger?
More likely Eeore..

 

[paulchapo]

It won't be allowed to go quickly, that's the issue.

It's a win-win for the Premier League and the lobbying clubs.

It's a guilty verdict in the first instance, barring City having a strong set of recordings or emails showing this is a witch hunt and irrefutable.

At the very least, they and our rivals know we would appeal until which time we exhaust every avenue up to the High Court.

In the interim, it materially damages us both on and off the pitch. Players we are interested in might look elsewhere, players we have, might demand to move elsewhere.

Commercially, we would be off limits to pretty much everyone but our Abu Dhabi partners.

The timing also conveniently addresses the white paper delay and comes as we still battle for three trophies.

We win something, it is further smeared.

We don't win anything, it has also played its part.

It would be a transfer ban in all but name and clubs such as Chelsea and Arsenal can crack on, while United and Liverpool become more attractive to investors because City's competitiveness is diminished.

Clear and orchestrated, which is why at the very least, it will be medium to short term pain until we clear our name.

We will lose the battle but win the war. Perhaps our rivals are more than comfortable with that.

In a nutshell that is it. It demoralises the whole club from top to bottom no matter how bullish some fans get on here. Pep and the players start thinking, "Why go all out to win if they might take away any titles we do?" Sponsors will be wary and so will players from joining us. Football is so competitive just a tiny drop off is the difference between success and failure. As we lose ground as a result our rivals grow stronger and I'm sure even tighter rules will be brought in to ensure that stays the case.

Of course the opposite could happen and it galvanises the whole club but I think that's unlikely. We cannot allow this to drag on for years as the damage will be almost as great as losing the case.

 

[Weavers run]

View attachment 68337

Haha I know, I rarely listen but if it’s a topic he doesn’t let his own personal issues distract him, he seems ok and can be interesting. Maybe I’m hooked in too, someone being articulate on that station might have tricked me. The second it’s city though I see him for what he is.

 

[Jack Hackett]

Don't bank on it.

It's the long-term aspiration of the Yank-owned clubs, and City is one of the main obstacles to it.

I don't doubt that it's a serious motivator for them is pursuing City, here.

If Arsenal join a super league, I’m off and pass my time at Kent County cricket, tennis and horse racing because the game will have been trashed.

 

[meeesh]

Pep gone on twitter?

Gone where ?

 

[premierkissov]

The problem with that approach is that it sends out the message that "if you spend more than you earn, you'll have to spend a bit more to make it right".

I can't see that going down well. What if it takes us over FFP again? Or are fines not considered part of FFP?

Absolutely, I know it will be impossible to avoid City suffering a hit in a sporting sense. That's fair enough. I just don't think some of the "nuclear" options being mentioned (we know what they are) seem fair on the fans, the players, and everyone else who has not had a hand in the accounts.

I'm staying well clear of social media as I know people are now saying our trophies were won by "cheating". It's BS. Our players are human beings the same as any other team's players and they won those matches fair and square on the pitch. If money guaranteed success then the rags would have dominated the 70s and 80s.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Are you sure the independent panel is going to be PL-appointed? Genuine question, not having a go. I can’t understand how our accusers could be allowed to hand pick those responsible for determining our fate?

Murray Rosen KC, has been appointed head of the commission by the PL. He gets to appoint the other commission members. He's an Arsenal ST holder, worryingly.

 

[Tolmie scores]

Interesting post mate and likely to be very accurate.

It surely wouldn't be in the PL's own interest to have to strip titles and relegate us. That would be incredibly bad for their brand all ove the world. As serious questions would be asked about how it was allowed to go on for so long.

But a fine, suspended points deduction and or out of court settlement (assuming City would agree) would definitely suit them. As you say, in the meantime it destabilises City. Potentially ut unsettles Pep, you can't blame potential transfer targets for wanting to distance themselves until their is an outcome and if we get hit with the harshest of penalties some of our players may well want to move away. Like you say, it's a transfer ban by default.

I was pretty disheartened yesterday, but the more I've read up on it the more I want the club to come out swinging and the statement yesterday implies they will.

I don't think our 'brand' is strong enough internationally. Prem to have Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal..and they've let Chelski play as well..= good for int image. We f'k up the apple cart...they don't like a woodbine and flat cap seen in middle east as poster fan of prem. That's stereotypical but their racist thinking... what fans of Norwich, Boston (on R5 today) etc should think about. Will current FFP allow them to win ...ever...course not. So rigged why aren't we fighting this the very essence of the problem?

 

[danielwood5]

My belief is this is pretty well about Fordham and Mancini's Al Jazira contract. The latter is immaterial and at the very worst, even assuming it's not time-barred, might result in a fine if the independent commission feel it's out of order.

Fordham is more difficult to call. They were originally Manchester City Football Club (Image Rights) and a club subsidiary. The were incorporated in May 2012 and appear to have stopped trading in 2018. They're currently being liquidated. Our wage vill shot up in 2019, from £260m to £315m, which while not absolutely conclusive, suggests that we started paying image rights via Manchester City Football Club then. Or it could be related to bringing one of the other subsidiaries (Manchester City Football Services) back into the main accounts.

Whatever the legalities of Fordham, we must have taken expert advice and there was a clear trail from Manchester City Football Club (Image Rights) to Fordham Sports Image Rights. Our auditors must have been aware of this and presumably would have asked the relevant questions. Assuming they did, had they not been happy they'd have walked away and/or qualified the accounts. They didn't so we must presume they were happy with the answers given.

Also, the Fordham situation was revealed by Der Spiegel iirc, or was publicised somewhere else, so it's hardly been a secret.

That was my immediate thought when I saw the dates and the charges linked to them.
I think UEFA were a bit funny about us centralising and outsourcing different parts of the club (image rights, scouting, etc) in regards to how to separate MCFC's costs and payments for services that are essentially amalgamated between all the clubs under the CFG banner.
If they decide that they don't like the way a single payment was made regarding image rights then every season we used Fordham they can throw multiple charges for the same thing at us (inaccurate accounting, illegal player payments, inflated sponsorships, etc, etc), this is a pretty easy way to get the headline figures of 'OVER A HUNDRED BREACHES!!!' when it's actually just a disagreement over complicated and tedious levels of accounting terminology.

 

[Norbert D]

As someone who personally led the defence of major false accounting claims in civil proceedings, prosecuted a civil claim for negligence against an auditor and for over 5 years led the (successful) defence of a public company being investigated by the SFO, I'd say my speculation is well founded. I say that merely to establish my own credibility on these matters.

There is simply no other way to read section 1 of the PL charges. These matters rarely start with the SFO but they can progress to the SFO (not that I am saying that will happen).

Hi there, throughout our battles with the authorities you have been the voice of expertise in a wall of noise. We are all very grateful you have been around to spell things out in language ordinary folk can understanding. I have a couple of questions that you may already have answered, but here goes:

1. others have mentioned a time limit for allegations over six years old, whilst the EPL are happy to throw allegations around from 2009, if this went to court could these older allegations be time barred?
2. Can City sue the EPL and those involved in what they could perceive to be a joint venture to destabilise or destroy the City business?

thanks you.

 

[skillman]

Pep gone on twitter?

Will be bollocks mate.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

The investigation predates Masters' appointment. He could not realistically quash an ongoing investigation.

He inherited the investigation but as CEO he will have huge influence on its progress. He joined the PL in November 2019 and will have had a huge say in the decision to hit City with 100 charges. Going back 14 years into our accounts to find a reason to charge us is more than a legal action. It's an attempt to destroy the club.
Given that most civil cases have a limitation of six years, except for exceptional circumstances, this is unprecedented. In fact I cant think of any other sporting case on such a historic scale. It looks like a vendetta to any fair-minded person.

 

[jaiguruKun]

It did NOT happen at CAS.

The decision to uphold the UEFA's finding of non-cooperation was made at CAS.

 

[Burtonblue]

In a nutshell that is it. It demoralises the whole club from top to bottom no matter how bullish some fans get on here. Pep and the players start thinking, "Why go all out to win if they might take away any titles we do?" Sponsors will be wary and so will players from joining us. Football is so competitive just a tiny drop off is the difference between success and failure. As we lose ground as a result our rivals grow stronger and I'm sure even tighter rules will be brought in to ensure that stays the case.

Of course the opposite could happen and it galvanises the whole club but I think that's unlikely. We cannot allow this to drag on for years as the damage will be almost as great as losing the case.

Not so sure.
Pep’s Catalan nature and the fact his friends run the club will ensure he’s up for the fight.
He like all the others knew this day was coming and I predict will be more than motivated by this.
We the fans must play our part and get behind the team now more than ever.
It’s time for proper siege mentality.

 

[Dribble]

From all that my take is… What type of stain? I’m sure I’m not the only one curious.

A shit stain. You throw enough of it & some's bound to stick.

As I said in a post yesterday, the Rags came crawling out from under their stones when this news broke. I had several messages:

"CROOKS" "THIEVES" "CHEATS" etc...

They all stopped when I asked them "What are these allegations related to?"

Every time they came back with "100 counts of FFP breaches" etc, I batted them away & stuck to "What are these allegations related to?"

Most don't even understand FFP or even know what exactly it is we're being accused of, BUT as long as it has the potential to stop City, that's all that matters to them!

As it turns out, within a couple of hours, all the "CHEATS" etc messages stopped, because I refused to even get into the bollocks related to this case. It's FFP itself & FFP only that we should discuss.

It's FFP that's fundamentally flawed, so it stands to reason that all decisions & findings originating from FFP are fundamentally flawed by default.

Why are we even discussing these flawed findings, instead of the FFP mechanism from which these flaws arise?

 

[moomba]

With the charges of non compliance with UEFAs FFP, won't us getting cleared at CAS mean that he can't be found guilty in those years?

Or will the league try to prove UEFAs case again?

 

[OrigamiNinja]

He inherited the investigation but as CEO he will have huge influence on its progress. He joined the PL in November 2019 and will have had a huge say in the decison to hit City with 100 charges. Going back 14 years into our accounts to find a reason to charge us is more than a legal action. It's an attempt to destroy the club.
Given that most civil cases have a limitation of six years, except for exceptional circumstances, this is unprecedented. In fact I cant think of any other historic sporting case on such a historic scale. It looks like a vendetta to any fair-minded person.

Question: If the charges are simply year on year copies of the same charge, is that why they would go back so far? To the 1st example of it occurring?

 

[Burtonblue]

Murray Rosen KC, has been appointed head of the commission by the PL. He gets to appoint the other commission members. He's an Arsenal ST holder, worryingly.

That will weaken his position as he cannot be deemed credibly impartial.

 

[Blue Theatre]

This is going to be a very odd period for the club. We're going to be playing in the Premier League while effectively at war with them.

It's going to cast even more doubt on referee appointments, VAR decisions, etc.

And if we do overhaul Arsenal, and the Premier League have to crown us Champions, it's all going to feel rather awkward.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if the PL were investigating 3 or 4 clubs, but it seems to be their view that no one else has done anything wrong; all problems lie with City who have committed 100+ offences.