PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

In theory, three month hearing,three month deliberation and the potential of appeal either way,so it's a fair way off unfortunately.

Here is a question. If one of the allegations is proven to the satisfaction of the IP, can the club appeal that one finding, or is the appeal for the judgment as a whole or even a completely new review of all the evidence for all the allegations.

I suppose I am asking if the club can appeal a non-cooperation finding in the hope it gets reversed but at the risk that some of the other allegations get opened up again?
 
Just the things that their desciples want to be fed.
Facts and actual news are ignored both by the media and it's willingly biased cultish followers.
Forever claiming a new update when we know there can't be , if found guilty..... for the millionth time and one even had an image of Pep behind bars on the update headline. How can that be allowed utterly ridiculous.
 
Here is a question. If one of the allegations is proven to the satisfaction of the IP, can the club appeal that one finding, or is the appeal for the judgment as a whole or even a completely new review of all the evidence for all the allegations.

I suppose I am asking if the club can appeal a non-cooperation finding in the hope it gets reversed but at the risk that some of the other allegations get opened up again?
Good question for Stefan maybe, get the impression Khaldoon wants total exoneration and will fight this as long as it takes even though Pep wants a quick resolution.
In a recent interview with Talkshite, Parish from the Palace was being goaded into revealing other clubs opinion on the case which he rebuffed but did reveal he had an option to go to the high court with a manager issue he had so that could be again a possibility but don't really know.
 
Good question for Stefan maybe, get the impression Khaldoon wants total exoneration and will fight this as long as it takes even though Pep wants a quick resolution.
In a recent interview with Talkshite, Parish from the Palace was being goaded into revealing other clubs opinion on the case which he rebuffed but did reveal he had an option to go to the high court with a manager issue he had so that could be again a possibility but don't really know.
City (or the PL) can choose what they appeal. The issue either party will have is that any appeal is not a retrial. The parties will be lumbered with the factual findings of the initial hearing. Appeals will have more success on sanctions and, if any, misapplications of the law. You don’t want to lose the initial hearing especially one where the findings of fact and witness impressions will be so crucial
 
I admire your naivety, personally I think we'll be found guilty of most charges with scant evidence just like UEFA's independent panel, it'll be buried under the red-top outrage to disassemble Manchester City and ten year bans.
I admire your commitment to a conspiracy theory that you completely disregard legal due process but fyi uefas panel was not independent but cas was and as i have continually and repeatedly said the red-top outrage which consists of the british press, sky sports etc doesnt have the global outreach that we think it does and we are not going to be disassembled etc etc i get it that it has become tiresome to listen to the constant stream of moronic outrage that its easier to just believe it than fight against it because whats the point right but what the press want to happen quite simply wont you quite simply expect any persons whos sole qualification is writing their opinion about football and talking crap on social media to remotely understand complex financial and legal machinations so their opinion counts the same as 99% of people everywhere in that it is irrelevant.
 
Social media means not only cant you fix stupid but you can mobilise them. Look at the riots last month, purpose misinformation led to lots of knuckle draggers trying to attack mosques. Media outlets, social media pages pump out their hate driven bile at City as they know they can monetise it. It’s been a wet dream for them since February 2023, where will they have to go to when all this gets chucked in the bin?
Where will they hide?
Where will they go?
Where will they find the moral fibre to wake up in the morning? :-)
 
City (or the PL) can choose what they appeal. The issue either party will have is that any appeal is not a retrial. The parties will be lumbered with the factual findings of the initial hearing. Appeals will have more success on sanctions and, if any, misapplications of the law. You don’t want to lose the initial hearing especially one where the findings of fact and witness impressions will be so crucial

Fair enough. Can one of the parties present new evidence with leave of the appeals panel if some new evidence has "come to light"?
 
has anyone put a financial number on our alleged transgressions? I haven't seen it. How much are we alleged to have benefited by?
Great point. Someone posted on here that we would not have breached FFP for most of the seasons even without the Etihad money. I can’t recall seeing any detailed figures.
 
It probably isn't so simple one way or the other. The Open Skies document alleges that the AD government paid the sponsorship, which is where the ADEC thought comes from, I think.

But, at the end of the day, both can be true. 8 million could be paid out of the cash resources of Etihad and the remainder could have been forwarded from ADEC to Etihad specifically to fund the sponsorship. So Etihad would have paid all the sponsorship as Pearce said, but the vast majority would have had to be arranged from ADEC, as the emails said.

Context is everything.

Edit: And if the allegations are anything like UEFA, they aren't questioning that Etihad paid the full amount, anyway. The allegation is that the majority was funded into Etihad by ADUG/ Mansour for which, I expect, they will have no evidence at all.
Yeah, I'm aware of where the ADEC theory came from. It was well reasoned and something I was saying alot myself until that submission from City's defence at CAS was pointed out.

As I understand it, the difference with the open skies case was operational costs were the problem, that was being subsidised, which the US firms were claiming was unfair. This was done via equity funding and shareholder loans, which is where ADEC came in. Etihad said this was fully compliant with the open skies agreement and I assume the decision went their way on that.

Marketing could well be treated differently to operational costs, with it's own funds/accounts set up specifically for that purpose.

As you say, it's not really an issue if ADEC were involved or not, in terms of the accusation, just as long as no related parties were involved in securing the rest of the revenue. I just think there's no need to mention ADEC at all, if City's defence aren't because they might not have been involved for all we know. Maybe that will be cleared up with the Independent Commission's arbitration or maybe City will just stick to what Pearce said.
 
Last edited:
Great point. Someone posted on here that we would not have breached FFP for most of the seasons even without the Etihad money. I can’t recall seeing any detailed figures.
It was probably me but I'd ignored the Etihad/Etisalat sponsorships because there not a hope in hell of those being found in breach of the PL rules in my opinion. CAS made sure of that and the PL would have to have solid evidence that a load of people lied at CAS to overturn that.

Fordham was probably in the region of £12/13m a year for three years (2013/14 to 2015/16) and Mancini's contract was for £1.75m a year for the years 2009/10 to 2012/13.

So never more than £13m in any one year.
 
It was probably me but I'd ignored the Etihad/Etisalat sponsorships because there not a hope in hell of those being found in breach of the PL rules in my opinion. CAS made sure of that and the PL would have to have solid evidence that a load of people lied at CAS to overturn that.

Fordham was probably in the region of £12/13m a year for three years (2013/14 to 2015/16) and Mancini's contract was for £1.75m a year for the years 2009/10 to 2012/13.

So never more than £13m in any one year.
Or the equivalent to Luke Shaw's Greggs tap.
 
It was probably me but I'd ignored the Etihad/Etisalat sponsorships because there not a hope in hell of those being found in breach of the PL rules in my opinion. CAS made sure of that and the PL would have to have solid evidence that a load of people lied at CAS to overturn that.

Fordham was probably in the region of £12/13m a year for three years (2013/14 to 2015/16) and Mancini's contract was for £1.75m a year for the years 2009/10 to 2012/13.

So never more than £13m in any one year.
Thanks. Bloody hell relegated for breaching about £13m each year. Not much of a sporting advantage there. Masters and his pals have lost their minds. Imagine the legal costs to pursue all this.
 
It’ll never be over with, they’ll come up with something else once we’re cleared, that’s the only reason it all exists - bitterness. Part of me thinks the PL will punish us anyway so they can keep it going (through the courts) for another 5 or 10 years. Those “in charge” of the PL know they will be done and dusted by then either way, in fact they’ll stay in a paid position longer if they try to make the charges stick.

Just learn to live with it and enjoy the superb football that no-one else has.
Unfortunately, this is along the lines of what I believe also. I just don’t see the end of what I consider a ‘campaign’ against us that is really spoiling the enjoyment of football in general.
If the Americans do eventually get their way, football will go down the pan.
I’m nearly done with it as it is. It’s only City that are keeping me interested.
 
I admire your commitment to a conspiracy theory that you completely disregard legal due process but fyi uefas panel was not independent but cas was and as i have continually and repeatedly said the red-top outrage which consists of the british press, sky sports etc doesnt have the global outreach that we think it does and we are not going to be disassembled etc etc i get it that it has become tiresome to listen to the constant stream of moronic outrage that its easier to just believe it than fight against it because whats the point right but what the press want to happen quite simply wont you quite simply expect any persons whos sole qualification is writing their opinion about football and talking crap on social media to remotely understand complex financial and legal machinations so their opinion counts the same as 99% of people everywhere in that it is irrelevant.
The media have to be extremely careful with how they report upon this because this goes beyond football.

They need to remember soon that they're not taking on Manchester City, they're taking on a country, a country with unlimited resources and fingers in pies beyond football. Our owners are not businessmen who need to submit to newspapers, they're more like rich kings who could quite honestly buy them out and close them down.

The Middle Eastern countries don't mess about with this sort of thing and the UK government will be watching this closely. Public embarassment of the UAE is not an option because the inevitable consequence is the loss of billions of future overseas investment in the UK and especially Manchester specifically.
 
Great point. Someone posted on here that we would not have breached FFP for most of the seasons even without the Etihad money. I can’t recall seeing any detailed figures.

We don't know what the details of the allegations are, so it's not easy to make calculations.

I think it is clear, though, that the PL must be alleging the Etihad sponsorship was severely overstated to have allegedly failed FFP. Iirc, the club's results were generally around break even in the years under review, so the other matters wouldn't have added anywhere near 100 million to losses.

What do we know about Etihad? Etihad 1 was supposedly a 400 million contract over 10 years, say 40 million a year. Etihad 2, we know from CAS was 220 million over years, say 55 million a year. Safe to assume Etihad 3 and 4 increased again to, say 60 million and 65 million a year.

UEFA's claim was that, as described in the emails, for one Etihad payment 8 million was paid "directly" and the remainder paid "indirectly" by ADUG. They applied this to each year even though, as CAS pointed out, the "direct" contribution changed each time. Anyway, let's assume the PL's case is also that 8 million was direct and the rest "indirect" each year. For Etihad 2 that would be a correction of 140 million (55-8*3) for each three year period, more than enough to put the club in FFP trouble, I imagine, even allowing for allowable costs.

Not that this is going to happen, imho. They don't have much chance of landing this one, I think, so it's all just a theoretical exercise really.

Anyway, these are just back of fag packet calculations, although I think think the basics are right. Happy to be corrected if wrong. It will be impossible to be accurate, though, until we see the reasons published by the IP.
 
Thanks. Bloody hell relegated for breaching about £13m each year. Not much of a sporting advantage there. Masters and his pals have lost their minds. Imagine the legal costs to pursue all this.

That wouldn't be a breach. The club's financial position was reasonably sound in the years covered by the allegations. So, even if they find in favour of the PL on everything except Etihad, including Etisalat, it's not a problem for FFP I don't think.
 
It was probably me but I'd ignored the Etihad/Etisalat sponsorships because there not a hope in hell of those being found in breach of the PL rules in my opinion. CAS made sure of that and the PL would have to have solid evidence that a load of people lied at CAS to overturn that.

Fordham was probably in the region of £12/13m a year for three years (2013/14 to 2015/16) and Mancini's contract was for £1.75m a year for the years 2009/10 to 2012/13.

So never more than £13m in any one year.
So we potentially may get relegated to the Vanarama because of £13m worth of revenue? What a load of shite, ay.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top