Play Youth Against Southampton

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It's a bit of a shame that all of our best youth players are out on loan, because I'd love to see the likes of Denayer or Lopes get a game against a decent opposition. Personally, I think the young players would get the most out of playing with the world class players rather than instead of them. Pozo would get loads out of playing alongside Aguero, for example. But I suspect he's more likely to give certain players (Lampard, Milner, Jovetic, maybe Dzeko) a send off than give the youngsters a game. And the likes of Bony haven't had much game time lately, so he'd also probably be ahead in the pecking order.
 
jollylescott said:
For the uninitiated there is some incredible talent in the junior ranks, and City fans should be looking forward to their progress, not living in fear that we might actually lose a game because a young player is on the park.
Exactly. If a team with Toure, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Hart, etc can't win a game because there's one 19 year old on the pitch with them, then they probably weren't going to win it anyway.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It's a bit of a shame that all of our best youth players are out on loan, because I'd love to see the likes of Denayer or Lopes get a game against a decent opposition. Personally, I think the young players would get the most out of playing with the world class players rather than instead of them. Pozo would get loads out of playing alongside Aguero, for example. But I suspect he's more likely to give certain players (Lampard, Milner, Jovetic, maybe Dzeko) a send off than give the youngsters a game. And the likes of Bony haven't had much game time lately, so he'd also probably be ahead in the pecking order.


Its not a shame that the best youth players are out on loan, its the best thing for City.

They are not on loan so its a case of out of site out of mind. Its a case of them being very much being in mind, but unfortunately the only way to get the experience necessary to break into our first team.

The scrappage of the reserves league has lead to this problem in english football.

Its all good the EDS sweeping aside all other "Youth" teams, but when it comes to playing with and against experienced "Men" we cant offer that under our noses.

I expect Lopes, Kelechi Iheanacho and Deneyer to be in the senior squad next year and the likes of Pozo, Kean Bryan, Angelino to be sent out on loan ready for the season after. Not exactly sure Barker would go out on loan next season or not, he's got bags potential, but I think Patrick needs another season with him
 
I'm With Stupid said:
jollylescott said:
For the uninitiated there is some incredible talent in the junior ranks, and City fans should be looking forward to their progress, not living in fear that we might actually lose a game because a young player is on the park.
Exactly. If a team with Toure, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Hart, etc can't win a game because there's one 19 year old on the pitch with them, then they probably weren't going to win it anyway.
Yet there are far too many supporters who are in panic at the thought of Yaya leaving and presumably expect the club to collapse as a result even with a galaxy of star names who remain and would probably be added to. For what it's worth, there is every opportunity of two or three EDS players to be on the bench and with the opportunity of getting some second half game time if all is going well. What is the point in glorifying our youth system if these lads are going to be ignored even for a dead rubber game like this one? There's nothing wrong in selecting a squad for the game using these parameters, and I'm sorry to say that those so-called supporters who are so vociferously against this should just pack up their bags and find someone else to support. True City supporters will be proud of those kids who come up through the ranks and who make the grade with us. They always have been and always will.
 
Mancini was sacked, Pellegrini was brought in because of the infamous word "holistic"

So they got rid of a manager who gave SIXTEEN Academy graduates their debuts and replaced him with someone who has given only TWO.

Regardless of the quality of the SIXTEEN Mancini gave debuts to, he gave them a chance, whether that was an important game like Boyata v United in the League Cup semi or Reece Wabara for a few mins in a dud end of season game v Bolton.

If he doesn't give another Academy graduate his debut on Sunday it's an absolute disgrace. I'd rather we would have spent £200m on stars rather than our fancy new shiny Academy if that is what we are only bothered about.

No doubt someone will come back and say "it's a long term project" or "won't see anything for 10 years" which is a load of bollocks, we have quality in our Academy who not only can but also deserve a taste of first team action in a dead rubber game, if the whole Academy cannot see a genuine progression even in a game like this then what is the point?
 
Get Kelechi and Pozo on the bench rather than Jovetic and Nasri. Angelino rather than Clichy. Give them a shot.
 
I am always surprised at the intensity of this debate.

The manager and coaching staff are experienced professionals who must surely recognise when a young lad is ready to be involved.

If they are not being given a run I trust the Clubs judgement, they know the players and they know the issues. If they are ready and good enough I expect them to be involved, if they are not then so be it.

People have mentioned how many Mancini give debuts to in contrast to Pelligrini, it didn't produce many 1st teamers did it?
 
Rodney said:
I am always surprised at the intensity of this debate.

The manager and coaching staff are experienced professionals who must surely recognise when a young lad is ready to be involved.

If they are not being given a run I trust the Clubs judgement, they know the players and they know the issues. If they are ready and good enough I expect them to be involved, if they are not then so be it.

People have mentioned how many Mancini give debuts to in contrast to Pelligrini, it didn't produce many 1st teamers did it?

The manager is a man who shouldn't be the sole decision maker and should be set quotas from above.

In the modern football world, managers have a distinct pressure to favour the known and reliable first teamer over the unpredictable youth no matter how good that youth player may be. In the "win at all costs" era of football, clubs who haven't built a specific philosophy in bringing through young players are having trouble developing one due to this pressure. At Ajax, Barca, United, etc you are forced to bring players through otherwise you'll lose your job. At places like Spurs and Liverpool they can legitimately use them as squad members out of the gates.

Every player in our squad is world class and would walk into 16 teams in the Premier League. Our backup right back who we barely use has been in THREE Premier League Team of the Years and played 300 Premier League and 70 Champions League games who was first choice at the Champions League club Arsenal. At 16 clubs he's their star player, at ours he's replaceable. We're talking about binning off Samir Nasri because he's wank - at most Champions League clubs let alone Premier League clubs he's their best player. There are about 3-5 teams in the entirety of world football who are in our league in terms of talent on the pitch, and 3 who are solidly above us. The rest of the world has our reserve players as their star players.

The idea that any young player in the world outside of the Messi type is going to walk into this team is ridiculous at best and delusional at worst. The loan system does nothing apart from polishing which we could do better at City and get them playing with world class players every day and learning the systems of play that they use rather than getting the shit kicked out of them in the French League as the only creative player on a team of plodders or facing off against the fearsome strikers in the Scottish or Dutch leagues.

So the current scenario is that we have a manager who is pressured to win every point so has a reason to not use the players, no tradition of bringing them through that has been stressed so not enough pressure from above, and no pressure from the players themselves as they don't have the development time needed to play for us and by the time that they do they've spent 5 years on loan and want to leave for guaranteed football.

The system we have is completely broken. Only a fool thinks our youth system is in any way functional. We have brought through no first team squad players since the takeover SEVEN years ago and the fact that we've recently built a new building has distracted people as a "reset point". The excuses that people give don't reflect the reality of the modern City positioning - people have said all season that "games are too important" to be using young players in but we will never again have unimportant games where potential title winning points aren't on the line. Even this absolutely nothing game against Southampton has people saying that we shouldn't give our promising youngsters imported from the best Academies in the world a chance because we might lose.

City managers need courage in the philosophy that Sheikh Mansour wants us to have in terms of bringing through homegrown players or they need to be made to work to quotas of played minutes because SOMETHING needs to change in this respect. The "they'll come through if they're good enough" argument is juvenile and doesn't consider the reality of the talent levels available in the City squad.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
jollylescott said:
For the uninitiated there is some incredible talent in the junior ranks, and City fans should be looking forward to their progress, not living in fear that we might actually lose a game because a young player is on the park.
Exactly. If a team with Toure, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Hart, etc can't win a game because there's one 19 year old on the pitch with them, then they probably weren't going to win it anyway.

Exactly. With the irony being we may see one or two Southampton players who have come through the youth ranks and have managed to perform successfully at this level without being shipped out all over Europe.
 
Damocles said:
Rodney said:
I am always surprised at the intensity of this debate.

The manager and coaching staff are experienced professionals who must surely recognise when a young lad is ready to be involved.

If they are not being given a run I trust the Clubs judgement, they know the players and they know the issues. If they are ready and good enough I expect them to be involved, if they are not then so be it.

People have mentioned how many Mancini give debuts to in contrast to Pelligrini, it didn't produce many 1st teamers did it?

The manager is a man who shouldn't be the sole decision maker and should be set quotas from above.

In the modern football world, managers have a distinct pressure to favour the known and reliable first teamer over the unpredictable youth no matter how good that youth player may be. In the "win at all costs" era of football, clubs who haven't built a specific philosophy in bringing through young players are having trouble developing one due to this pressure. At Ajax, Barca, United, etc you are forced to bring players through otherwise you'll lose your job. At places like Spurs and Liverpool they can legitimately use them as squad members out of the gates.

Every player in our squad is world class and would walk into 16 teams in the Premier League. Our backup right back who we barely use has been in THREE Premier League Team of the Years and played 300 Premier League and 70 Champions League games who was first choice at the Champions League club Arsenal. At 16 clubs he's their star player, at ours he's replaceable. We're talking about binning off Samir Nasri because he's wank - at most Champions League clubs let alone Premier League clubs he's their best player. There are about 3-5 teams in the entirety of world football who are in our league in terms of talent on the pitch, and 3 who are solidly above us. The rest of the world has our reserve players as their star players.

The idea that any young player in the world outside of the Messi type is going to walk into this team is ridiculous at best and delusional at worst. The loan system does nothing apart from polishing which we could do better at City and get them playing with world class players every day and learning the systems of play that they use rather than getting the shit kicked out of them in the French League as the only creative player on a team of plodders or facing off against the fearsome strikers in the Scottish or Dutch leagues.

So the current scenario is that we have a manager who is pressured to win every point so has a reason to not use the players, no tradition of bringing them through that has been stressed so not enough pressure from above, and no pressure from the players themselves as they don't have the development time needed to play for us and by the time that they do they've spent 5 years on loan and want to leave for guaranteed football.

The system we have is completely broken. Only a fool thinks our youth system is in any way functional. We have brought through no first team squad players since the takeover SEVEN years ago and the fact that we've recently built a new building has distracted people as a "reset point". The excuses that people give don't reflect the reality of the modern City positioning - people have said all season that "games are too important" to be using young players in but we will never again have unimportant games where potential title winning points aren't on the line. Even this absolutely nothing game against Southampton has people saying that we shouldn't give our promising youngsters imported from the best Academies in the world a chance because we might lose.

City managers need courage in the philosophy that Sheikh Mansour wants us to have in terms of bringing through homegrown players or they need to be made to work to quotas of played minutes because SOMETHING needs to change in this respect. The "they'll come through if they're good enough" argument is juvenile and doesn't consider the reality of the talent levels available in the City squad.

I don't often agree with you but this is 100% bang on the money. Every game we play is a 100% must win game so either we start blooding youth players and showing some trust in them or we have just wasted £200 million on an academy that only other clubs will benefit from after those players have got pissed off at the lack of opportunities and leave.
 
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