Player thread: James Milner (2014/15)

[Shaelumstash]

Re: James Milner - Striker

Yep, completely agreeable. Just the last bit I struggle with slightly. It is obvious to see he isn't the most gifted. I actually liken him to Navas. They don't do what Silva does, Yaya, Nasri.... but they both give their all. They both perform to the best of their abilities.

I don't understand your last sentence :/ It's a human nature quality. As a fan, to back the trier, to empathize with the (as it were) underdog. I am not saying he isn't replaceable. But I prefer to think, and I hope rightly, that the fans see the value in his utility and his performances.

Incidentally, I don't think Milner is the most popular player. I think it's Zabaleta. But they are similar players. Hence my point about fans backing the workhorse.

I totally agree with you about people love rooting for the underdog / the trier. I think it's a British cultural thing though. I don't think the Italians or the Germans cheer for the trier ahead of the gifted genius. As someone else pointed out earlier, maybe that's one of the reasons why England are so shite at national level? We look at the game in the wrong way.

I also agree about Zabba, he's idolised by the fans, and rightly so. But I think Milner is overtaking him in home fans affections this season. We played absolutely wonderfully for 45 minutes against Sunderland, Lampard could have had a hat trick, his movement and technique in striking the ball were incredible, Yaya ran the show, Fernandinho played well, Silva while not at his best still played some astonishing through balls, DeMichelis was superb, Clichy had arguably his best game in a City shirt, yet the first chant for a player was when Milner came on, chased a lost cause in the the corner, then miscontrolled it out for a goal kick.

Personally I don't think fans of the shite, or Arsenal or Liverpool, or Barca or Bayern for that matter would hold Milner in the same regard that City fans do. They are used to seeing world class players over many years, so while they appreciate hard work, they probably realise that quality and technique and composure are the qualities that win you trophies ahead of graft.

I'm not criticising Milner, personally I just find it baffling that he is more idolised by our fans than some of our other players who I personally hold in higher esteem, such as Silva and Aguero.

:) nice post, but again, I don't see what is baffling about the fans idolizing the ultimate grafter over the wizard.

Fans want to be in touch with the football team they support. Milner and Zaba represent their love for the team. They do their utmost (as we would as fans) on the pitch to ensure victory. Regardless of goal scoring/assists, they do what what we would do. Again they're aren't the best footballers, but they are the most devoted.

City are a fantastic team these days, and full of winners too. Yet we aren't the best in the world and even now some players let their head drop/give in/give up. I have never seen Milner do that. I have never seen Zaba do that. Actually, Kompany too, and Dickov and others... That a reason why they receive such adulation.

Is that so strange? They will chase lost causes, commit to tackles, stretch every sinew. It's a natural thing to admire these types of players.

It's horses for courses I suppose. As I player I was the type of player who gave everything, I was the hardest worker on my team, I hated losing more than anyone, so perhaps I don't admire those qualities in professional players as much because I can relate to their mentality.

I could never relate to the way David Silva sees football in his head. I think he's as close as you can get to a genius in terms of spacial awareness on a football pitch. His touch is just astonishing to me, his ability to play an intricate pass, his bravery to want the ball in the tightest of spaces. These are the qualities I admire.

I could go and watch my local Sunday league side for free and see a few lads who give their absolute all. But I'd rather pay my money to watch David Silva because you can't see that kind of quality on Hough End. His ability is something I admire. Again, I'm not knocking Milner, but it's not natural to me to admire Milner / Dickov etc for trying hard, for me that's a minimum, it's expected.

I've got great respect for brickies and scaffolders, they work really hard, but I wouldn't chant their name.

It's about quality for me. A good analogy might be a busker on Market St. Works his arse off playing every day for years in the wind and rain, trying to improve, singing his heart out, giving his all, but it's not very good. I respect him for trying, but I can't get passionate about his music because the quality is poor. On the other hand I'll pay £50 and go and stand in a field to watch John Squire play guitar. He might not work as hard as the busker, but his talent is so much greater, that I admire that more than the graft the busker puts in.

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Re: James Milner - Striker

It's horses for courses I suppose. As I player I was the type of player who gave everything, I was the hardest worker on my team, I hated losing more than anyone, so perhaps I don't admire those qualities in professional players as much because I can relate to their mentality.

I could never relate to the way David Silva sees football in his head. I think he's as close as you can get to a genius in terms of spacial awareness on a football pitch. His touch is just astonishing to me, his ability to play an intricate pass, his bravery to want the ball in the tightest of spaces. These are the qualities I admire.

I could go and watch my local Sunday league side for free and see a few lads who give their absolute all. But I'd rather pay my money to watch David Silva because you can't see that kind of quality on Hough End. His ability is something I admire. Again, I'm not knocking Milner, but it's not natural to me to admire Milner / Dickov etc for trying hard, for me that's a minimum, it's expected.

I've got great respect for brickies and scaffolders, they work really hard, but I wouldn't chant their name.

It's about quality for me. A good analogy might be a busker on Market St. Works his arse off playing every day for years in the wind and rain, trying to improve, singing his heart out, giving his all, but it's not very good. I respect him for trying, but I can't get passionate about his music because the quality is poor. On the other hand I'll pay £50 and go and stand in a field to watch John Squire play guitar. He might not work as hard as the busker, but his talent is so much greater, that I admire that more than the graft the busker puts in.

It's a great analogy, but flawed in my opinion.

You admire the architect (nothing wrong with that) but the builders make the spectacle. Silva is utterly incredible, he has his talents and he uses them to the max. But my point is, one needs the other. You can't have a team of architects. They won't win anything. You need the labour. I respect the labour. Football isn't a one-way sport. There is dirty work to be done. I don't see Milner as a labourer, he is far more talented than that, but he does it regardless, as does Zaba, as does others.

Bottom line. There is another team trying to win a game of football. With these types of players, (Milner) you have a better chance of winning a football match.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Re: James Milner - Striker

It's horses for courses I suppose. As I player I was the type of player who gave everything, I was the hardest worker on my team, I hated losing more than anyone, so perhaps I don't admire those qualities in professional players as much because I can relate to their mentality.

I could never relate to the way David Silva sees football in his head. I think he's as close as you can get to a genius in terms of spacial awareness on a football pitch. His touch is just astonishing to me, his ability to play an intricate pass, his bravery to want the ball in the tightest of spaces. These are the qualities I admire.

I could go and watch my local Sunday league side for free and see a few lads who give their absolute all. But I'd rather pay my money to watch David Silva because you can't see that kind of quality on Hough End. His ability is something I admire. Again, I'm not knocking Milner, but it's not natural to me to admire Milner / Dickov etc for trying hard, for me that's a minimum, it's expected.

I've got great respect for brickies and scaffolders, they work really hard, but I wouldn't chant their name.

It's about quality for me. A good analogy might be a busker on Market St. Works his arse off playing every day for years in the wind and rain, trying to improve, singing his heart out, giving his all, but it's not very good. I respect him for trying, but I can't get passionate about his music because the quality is poor. On the other hand I'll pay £50 and go and stand in a field to watch John Squire play guitar. He might not work as hard as the busker, but his talent is so much greater, that I admire that more than the graft the busker puts in.

It's a great analogy, but flawed in my opinion.

You admire the architect (nothing wrong with that) but the builders make the spectacle. Silva is utterly incredible, he has his talents and he uses them to the max. But my point is, one needs the other. You can't have a team of architects. They won't win anything. You need the labour. I respect the labour. Football isn't a one-way sport. There is dirty work to be done. I don't see Milner as a labourer, he is far more talented than that, but he does it regardless, as does Zaba, as does others.

Bottom line. There is another team trying to win a game of football. With these types of players, (Milner) you have a better chance of winning a football match.

I completely agree you need the graft to support the artistry, you're absolutely right about that, you need balance. My wider point is that it's an English trait, and a City fans trait in the last 20 years in particular, to value the graft more than the artistry.

The reason I find it strange is because you don't see the same thing happening elsewhere. The French fans didn't sing Dechamps name instead of Zidane's.

Nobody goes to see a film and applauds the runners / set builders who worked the hardest. They applaud the talent of the director / the actors / the script writers. That is where the real talent is, that is what is to be admired.

Of course the film couldn't happen without the set builders. They actually probably put in far more physical effort than the director or actors. But the fact of the matter is, you or me could go and work back stage stage and lug shit around, it's honerable work, but not really something to be admired / applauded.

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Re: James Milner - Striker

I completely agree you need the graft to support the artistry, you're absolutely right about that, you need balance. My wider point is that it's an English trait, and a City fans trait in the last 20 years in particular, to value the graft more than the artistry.

The reason I find it strange is because you don't see the same thing happening elsewhere. The French fans didn't sing Dechamps name instead of Zidane's.

Nobody goes to see a film and applauds the runners / set builders who worked the hardest. They applaud the talent of the director / the actors / the script writers. That is where the real talent is, that is what is to be admired.

Of course the film couldn't happen without the set builders. They actually probably put in far more physical effort than the director or actors. But the fact of the matter is, you or me could go and work back stage stage and lug shit around, it's honerable work, but not really something to be admired / applauded.

I agree completely. Sorry for the waste of time. I actually truggle at the best of times to understand someone else's point of view right away. I now see what you've been getting at. You are right. Hopefully I haven't wound you up :) It wasn't my intention.

It's the world over. We marvel at the bridges/monuments/structures without acknowledging the workers. This is the point you're making I hope. You are right.

I suppose us City fans haven't caught up yet, as you alluded to. We still revere the runners. I really quite like that actually, it shows humanity.

Personally I would feel completely detached if the fans were to label players like Jimmy as mere pawns in the game. In short I am glad City fans or perhaps the English (which maybe too broad a statement, as might be City fans) are as proud of our grafters as we are of our architects.

20 years from now I hope City fans will mention Silva and Milner in the same breath. But I know where you are coming from, and it won't happen.

 

[PeepingTom]

Re: James Milner - Striker

The comparisons the other professions in this thread are fucking brilliant! Haha

 

[Shaelumstash]

Re: James Milner - Striker

I completely agree you need the graft to support the artistry, you're absolutely right about that, you need balance. My wider point is that it's an English trait, and a City fans trait in the last 20 years in particular, to value the graft more than the artistry.

The reason I find it strange is because you don't see the same thing happening elsewhere. The French fans didn't sing Dechamps name instead of Zidane's.

Nobody goes to see a film and applauds the runners / set builders who worked the hardest. They applaud the talent of the director / the actors / the script writers. That is where the real talent is, that is what is to be admired.

Of course the film couldn't happen without the set builders. They actually probably put in far more physical effort than the director or actors. But the fact of the matter is, you or me could go and work back stage stage and lug shit around, it's honerable work, but not really something to be admired / applauded.

I agree completely. Sorry for the waste of time. I actually truggle at the best of times to understand someone else's point of view right away. I now see what you've been getting at. You are right. Hopefully I haven't wound you up :) It wasn't my intention.

It's the world over. We marvel at the bridges/monuments/structures without acknowledging the workers. This is the point you're making I hope. You are right.

I suppose us City fans haven't caught up yet, as you alluded to. We still revere the runners. I really quite like that actually, it shows humanity.

Personally I would feel completely detached if the fans were to label players like Jimmy as mere pawns in the game. In short I am glad City fans or perhaps the English (which maybe too broad a statement, as might be City fans) are as proud of our grafters as we are of our architects.

20 years from now I hope City fans will mention Silva and Milner in the same breath. But I know where you are coming from, and it won't happen.

I don't think you were winding me up at all mate, it's interesting to hear different points of view. I get where you're coming from, it does show humility.

To be honest it's been a bug bear of mine since Dickov. I think the fans who idolised him for his workrate were blinded to the fact that his lack of quality was one of the major contributing factors as to why we sunk so low. A centre forward averaging 5 goals a season is simply not good enough, but City fans at the time were blinded by it because he used to chase lost causes down to the corner flags.

Much the same as Milner has done in his honerable stint as a make shift number 9. It's only when you have a proper forward up there that you realise how intricate their movement and timing of their runs has to be. Sometimes charging after lost causes is not the best use of their energy.

Another bug bear is the lack of appreciation Silva gets. There have been numerous threads on here trying to get a song for him, and I've heard a few get going at away games. But you don't hear songs sung about him with the gusto you hear the Milner ones.

Silva is the best player I've ever seen in the flesh, and I just think it's a shame he probably doesn't realise how fondly most City fans feel about him. If he was blustering down the wing chasing the full back and diving in balls first and giving away a throw he'd probably generate a bigger reaction from our fans which is a shame, he shouldn't have to.

 

[whp.blue]

Re: James Milner - Striker

Crazy how we've been playing a player for 4 years who isn't good enough.

Remind me again how many games did Edghill play for us

Remind me how many trophies we won. Do you see the trend?

Are you actually claiming that Milner is the main reason that we have won trophies?? and Edghill is the reason we never won them back in the day?

and obviously I don't see any trend other than Milner is a very average player in a very very good squad

 

[Thenumber1blue]

Re: James Milner - Striker

Remind me again how many games did Edghill play for us

Remind me how many trophies we won. Do you see the trend?

Are you actually claiming that Milner is the main reason that we have won trophies?? and Edghill is the reason we never won them back in the day?

and obviously I don't see any trend other than Milner is a very average player in a very very good squad

I'm afraid this is true and i've always said it but nobody would particularly want to see him leave.

 

[whp.blue]

Re: James Milner - Striker

Remind me how many trophies we won. Do you see the trend?

Are you actually claiming that Milner is the main reason that we have won trophies?? and Edghill is the reason we never won them back in the day?

and obviously I don't see any trend other than Milner is a very average player in a very very good squad

I'm afraid this is true and i've always said it but nobody would particularly want to see him leave.

This is the same argument I had about Barry and when we eventually let him go we improved the squad and if it hadn't been for FFP restrictions we could have made a bigger step forward

We could let Milner go and replace him with say Koke and I don't think any fan would be moaning how good Milner was for long

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: James Milner - Striker

Remind me how many trophies we won. Do you see the trend?

Are you actually claiming that Milner is the main reason that we have won trophies?? and Edghill is the reason we never won them back in the day?

and obviously I don't see any trend other than Milner is a very average player in a very very good squad

I'm afraid this is true and i've always said it but nobody would particularly want to see him leave.

The same could be said for the lack of success the England team has.

The English players are used to supporting and integrating with the cream of world class players from other countries so when they play for England that element is missing which then reflects in apparently sub standard performances at National level.