Player Topic: Eliaquim Mangala (2015/16)

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What do you mean by the entire pitch misjudged the flight of the ball? It was Mangalas job to judge it in the air and deal with it as it was more or less on his head

Nobody seemed to reach to the ball; the guy in the middle was jogging forward, Mangala was pressing the man and the other lad was doing your standard turn the defender and gamble. The lad in particularly that Mangala tracked is a lad who he had obviously been given instructions to press out of the defensive line as he did it literally the entire game, and it's something that we always do as part of our defensive strategy.

See here, the ball comes into the frame at the angle pretty much between the black dots. It almost dropped out of the sky and both the striker and Mangala are desperately attempting to slow down whereas Kolarov and the rest of the team seems to be stood watching. This doesn't suggest to me a ball which travels at a normal curve/angle, your mileage may differ of course but at the angle it came into shot and the reaction of the players, I don't see it.

KFl1hOv.png


I think to get that type of angle at the last part of an arc you'd presume it was kicked extremely high which would mean that everybody on the pitch would be pretty relaxed about where it's going to end up. To support this you'd need it to bounce high and straight. Here's the ball entering frame and the bounce



So now we think again. The ball is on a high arc looping almost straight up and then straight down, and remember both players in the first frame are already slowing down. They already have started their movement.

This means that suggesting that this guy had anything but a little bit of luck and instead is a genius which did Mangala up means that you think he started at least 10 yards back, seeing this ball that went straight up and straight down, ran all the way past it to the point where he carried Mangala a good yard past it then turned him? I'm not saying it can't happen, it just doesn't seem to make any sense to me that even a CL quality player is going to be THAT good of a predictor of future events that everything goes right for him.

Don't get me wrong, if this was a ball that was a normal long arc then I could see that that could happen as it does a hundred times a game. I just don't think anybody in the world has that much foreknowledge and skill to predict all those things and instead it's a player doing a pretty simplistic deep run then got lucky that everything fell into place for him.

It's a high ball on a Mancunian night in December. A bit of wind carrying it a yard or two and a striker gambling on his run just seems like the most simple option here rather than idea that all of this was incredibly precise planning.

You may disagree. But none of this changes that even after that ball bounced Mangala controlled the situation well and was let down by the midfield who refused to close down that triangle and a Yaya Toure who had no idea what to do in that scenario.
 
But insults, accusations of fabrication and questioning poeple's integrity are useful to such discussions and make this quaint little forum just that are they?

Good to know what's what.

Perhaps you misunderstand what "we're done here" means?
 
Nobody seemed to reach to the ball; the guy in the middle was jogging forward, Mangala was pressing the man and the other lad was doing your standard turn the defender and gamble. The lad in particularly that Mangala tracked is a lad who he had obviously been given instructions to press out of the defensive line as he did it literally the entire game, and it's something that we always do as part of our defensive strategy.

See here, the ball comes into the frame at the angle pretty much between the black dots. It almost dropped out of the sky and both the striker and Mangala are desperately attempting to slow down whereas Kolarov and the rest of the team seems to be stood watching. This doesn't suggest to me a ball which travels at a normal curve/angle, your mileage may differ of course but at the angle it came into shot and the reaction of the players, I don't see it.

KFl1hOv.png


I think to get that type of angle at the last part of an arc you'd presume it was kicked extremely high which would mean that everybody on the pitch would be pretty relaxed about where it's going to end up. To support this you'd need it to bounce high and straight. Here's the ball entering frame and the bounce



So now we think again. The ball is on a high arc looping almost straight up and then straight down, and remember both players in the first frame are already slowing down. They already have started their movement.

This means that suggesting that this guy had anything but a little bit of luck and instead is a genius which did Mangala up means that you think he started at least 10 yards back, seeing this ball that went straight up and straight down, ran all the way past it to the point where he carried Mangala a good yard past it then turned him? I'm not saying it can't happen, it just doesn't seem to make any sense to me that even a CL quality player is going to be THAT good of a predictor of future events that everything goes right for him.

Don't get me wrong, if this was a ball that was a normal long arc then I could see that that could happen as it does a hundred times a game. I just don't think anybody in the world has that much foreknowledge and skill to predict all those things and instead it's a player doing a pretty simplistic deep run then got lucky that everything fell into place for him.

It's a high ball on a Mancunian night in December. A bit of wind carrying it a yard or two and a striker gambling on his run just seems like the most simple option here rather than idea that all of this was incredibly precise planning.

You may disagree. But none of this changes that even after that ball bounced Mangala controlled the situation well and was let down by the midfield who refused to close down that triangle and a Yaya Toure who had no idea what to do in that scenario.

I don't disagree as such, was genuinely interested in what you meant. It's perfectly possible that the ball could have held up as the weather was certainly unpredictable. It's hard to be sure without being able to see the ball at its highest point and tbh I can't recall the incident particularly well from the night.
 
Maybe yaya could have covered. But he not played for defensive duties. Hes essentially the deep play maker.
It's not necessarily any individuals fault.
It's the system we play. High line and front foot defending.
It worked perfectly in the second half which kept up the unrelenting pressure on the opposition causing them to eventually crumble.
Obviously the down side is if the ball breaks to the opposition through skill or luck, they get in behind

Gary Neville
 
Perhaps you misunderstand what "we're done here" means?
Perhaps I do, then again you presume the ball was "kicked really high" when if you made that fancy vid a little longer you'd see a defender simply heading it forward 20 yards or so, so perhaps we all misunderstand things.
 
Jesus, all this analysis of a ball that he handled perfectly reasonably, that led to a striker having the ball under pressure on the touchline 50 yards from our goal with our entire defence and our midfield between him and goal. You have to realise at some point how utterly ridiculous this is?
 
Jesus, all this analysis of a ball that he handled perfectly reasonably, that led to a striker having the ball under pressure on the touchline 50 yards from our goal with our entire defence and our midfield between him and goal. You have to realise at some point how utterly ridiculous this is?
I don't think anyway can take you serious considering your bias towards players coming from the shit that is the Portuguese league
 
I don't think anyway can take you serious considering your bias towards players coming from the shit that is the Portuguese league
Aye, that's why I'd blame Otamendi instead of Mangala. Oh wait, that makes literally no sense.
 
Jesus, all this analysis of a ball that he handled perfectly reasonably, that led to a striker having the ball under pressure on the touchline 50 yards from our goal with our entire defence and our midfield between him and goal. You have to realise at some point how utterly ridiculous this is?

That's sort of the point here. The idea that this is an example of a Mangala mistake doesn't really understand the basics of defending in terms of collective responsibility and even the point that he mishandled the original header and "got done" means that that striker should be immediately signed because he's the greatest football genius who has ever lived.
 
Sarcastic comments are useful to forum discussion, take note. As is hypocrisy, can't forget that good old mod hypocrisy. It's useful to know that insults, false accusations and much more are actively encouraged on here but not offering, and reasoning your own opinion; whether others agree or not that's their opinion.

What a wonderul discussion forum! Am I doing it right?
 
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