Player topic: Yaya Toure 2014/15 (continued)

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

I hope he stays for another season, he's arguably the best player in the PL & for what we would get for him, we wouldn't be able to buy anyone who could replace him.

The fact that we haven't even made any attempt to plan for this is the most laughable part.

Since de Jong left we have signed Garcia, Rodwell, Fernandinho and Fernando with Lampard on loan in central midfield. Never going to rule Europe with signings like that. None of them are a patch on Yaya at his prime. In fact only Fernandinho comes close now.

Even if we did manage to sign say Pogba, what's the chances of him coming in and slotting straight in?

Slim!!

Only City would consider selling Yaya, we need to build a team around him, not fuck him off and replace him with Wiltshire and/or Henderson!!

I agree. The manager is our problem. I find it very difficult to understand how so many of our good to great players have turned to shit in one season.

I still think Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Toure, Silva and Aguero are the main players in our side and with a top manager in place, all of these will be performing at the top of their game again. Hart has been good but the rest, average (Aguero since he came back, not before) to crap and they are all too good for that to happen.

 

[MeatHunterrr]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

Yaya can go but we need a replacement and a real replacement, not Ross Barkley. Barcelona have sold all those players but always had a replacement they were sure could maintain or improve the quality.

In Yaya's case there is no equal to his mixture of power, attacking ability and passing ability. But you could find someone with his passing ability and also better defensive ability, who could partner well with Fernandinho. Verratti is a great example but he is probably not gettable. He is nowhere near the physical presence of Yaya and no goal threat but his passing is as good and he is better defensively.

So as long as we buy a high quality replacement who can slot into a well balanced midfield 2 (or 3, but we'll probably continue with 2 if MP stays) then selling Yaya would not be a disaster. And you can't keep Yaya around to play a reduced role on his wages, if we keep him it has to be to continue as a major part of our team. With FFP's wage bill limits, top level wages like his have to be reserved for the main players.

Agree with this.

 

[BenLlewellyn]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

Replacing the Yaya of last season is near enough impossible , replacing the Yaya of this season is much easier, with the options on the market this summer I think now would be a good time to replace him with one of Koke or Pogba and I can see them being taken this coming transfer window (less so with Koke) so who does that leave for coming seasons? Maybe Kovacic but I think he lacks the physicality, Verrati won't leave psg so I don't know who else could replace a player such as him.

It's all about attitude with him, if he's up for it then he's one of the best players in the world, but when he's just wondering around letting people run past him then he can anger a lot of people, I don't think it's fitness that let's him down because in games when we're losing in the last few minutes he looks a lot better, letting Rakitic run off him in the 30th minute surely can't be a fitness issue, but if it is then he's got a big problem that needs sorting immediately.

I would personally sell him this summer and go all out for one of Koke or Pogba (or both ;) ), I think the important thing is getting his wages off the books rather than the transfer fee we get, although if he can regain that hunger and desire that seen him become such an important part of this team's success since signing then it would be stupid not to keep him, but at this moment in time I can't see it happening.

 

[Blue Mooner]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

In my opinion we have probably 6 crack players in their positions currently Kompany, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho (just) Zabaleta and Yaya.

It would be simply madness to let one of those go until their legs have gone which is 4/5 years in most cases.

We all know yayas weakness so we need to find a formation and players to supplement the talent we already have not replace it. Add Pogba to the above and we have really strengthened do a straight swap and it's arguable you might improve 10% if at all considering the additional risks that always come with a new signing. Look at Di Maria as a prime example. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Even If the season had ended on Monday, I fail to understand why 4th and a point behind the rags & 2 behind Arsenal would mean wholesale changes were required.

 

[fatbloke]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

I understand the need for keeping players and bringing in players to complement them but in Yaya's case it's his performances that are negatively impacting on the players around him, that's clear for everybody to see.

 

[Dax777]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

Yaya can go but we need a replacement and a real replacement, not Ross Barkley. Barcelona have sold all those players but always had a replacement they were sure could maintain or improve the quality.

In Yaya's case there is no equal to his mixture of power, attacking ability and passing ability. But you could find someone with his passing ability and also better defensive ability, who could partner well with Fernandinho. Verratti is a great example but he is probably not gettable. He is nowhere near the physical presence of Yaya and no goal threat but his passing is as good and he is better defensively.

So as long as we buy a high quality replacement who can slot into a well balanced midfield 2 (or 3, but we'll probably continue with 2 if MP stays) then selling Yaya would not be a disaster. And you can't keep Yaya around to play a reduced role on his wages, if we keep him it has to be to continue as a major part of our team. With FFP's wage bill limits, top level wages like his have to be reserved for the main players.

Agree with this.

If the goal is to replace Yaya of 2 to 4 years ago, yes I agree with LC. But in all honesty, we don't have even that Yaya anymore. He is older, powers through team even less (I pointed out a while back that his runs have reduced every single year he has played for us) simply put, the older he got, the less able and willing to make those lunging runs he has become. Thats normal. Age does that.

As per the current Yaya, he could be easily replaced by a mltitude of great passing CMs. True, when it happens, people will compare the replacement to Yaya of 3 years ago, as opposed to the Yaya of today (who is no where near the Yaya of 3 years ago either), but thats fine. Statistically, we'll be a better squad than the one we ave now.

This is why I advocated for the selling of Yaya in the summer, not because of his whinning, but because his decline was greatly masked by a statistically brilliant year. We'd have gotten the most for him then, and avoided the obvious decline that has now occurred. Arsene Wenger, was always fantastic at moving an old star 1-2 years away from his great decline. We seem to lack this foresight, both from our management and often from our fans who just love to hope our best players will be great for what often seems an unreasonable number of years into the future. There are those who think Silva has 4-5 more years of excellence in him. I personally dont see it. But we can always hope :(

 

[Dax777]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

In my opinion we have probably 6 crack players in their positions currently Kompany, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho (just) Zabaleta and Yaya.

It would be simply madness to let one of those go until their legs have gone which is 4/5 years in most cases.

We all know yayas weakness so we need to find a formation and players to supplement the talent we already have not replace it. Add Pogba to the above and we have really strengthened do a straight swap and it's arguable you might improve 10% if at all considering the additional risks that always come with a new signing. Look at Di Maria as a prime example. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Even If the season had ended on Monday, I fail to understand why 4th and a point behind the rags & 2 behind Arsenal would mean wholesale changes were required.

This is that opinion that often saddens me. None of the above would be better than an average player in 4 years. Why are some of our fans so hopeful. Yaya and Kompany are already on the downturn. Fernandihno and Silva probably have 2 more great years in them. Aguero has between 1 - 3 years of high performance depending on injury, and Zaba haS Zaba 2-3 years.

The problem is not that these guys will become bad, its that younger players will overtake them, just like they overtook the older players before them, Isco is now Better than Iniesta and Xavi. Both were top 4 players in the world a mere 3 years ago, and Isco was a dipper dandy. Pogba is now better than Yaya, 3 years ago, he couldnt get 1st team action in a weak United offense that Yaya ate for lunch. This is just the Cycle of life. Like Hart overtook the stellar Shay Given and took City to greater heights, younger players will overtake their elders and eventually crush them. You never want to be on the last leg end of this battle. Sure keep one or 2, but you are always best being on the verge wth the up and comers with a sprinkling of experience.

If all 6 players you mentioned abve are City starters in 4 years (i can guarantee without knowing what others ae doing, that we will not come close to winning the league.)

The time for new blood has come and we are slightly late, but thats fine. It only takes the infusion of 2-3 young studs for aging ones to change the culture of any great team. Ours will be no different.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

The trick / skill with replacing any top player isn't so much knowing then the peak is past.... but the crossover point where a younger player coming in offers more overall than the outgoing older player.

For instance, Yaya MIGHT have been at his peak 2 years ago and is now past his peak, but he might still be better than most. We may have an alternative player who will never be as good as Yaya was then, but is rapidly approaching being as good as he is now... that's the crossover point.

The hard part is that we tend to look upon great player with our historical specs on, so we remember the golden moments, and once in a while, we still see glimpses of that, thus fall into the age old trap of 'he's still got it'. That's when you end up in the same situation as Liverpool with Gerrard... clinging on to those less and less frequent moments, and overlooking the week in week out mediocrity.

Ferguson was a master at this, seeming to move so many great players on (not always for technical reasons admittedly when many fans thought it was too soon to let players go). No sentiment.
Yaya will never get better. That's a fact. His value is diminishing every transfer window, and his great moments are getting few and far between. We just can't let the odd fantastic goal sway us, and cling on for too long.

Our future is without him, just as it is without every player eventually.... it's time to let him go, take the money and invest it in a quality buy for the next 5 years.

 

[LWashington]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

The trick / skill with replacing any top player isn't so much knowing then the peak is past.... but the crossover point where a younger player coming in offers more overall than the outgoing older player.

For instance, Yaya MIGHT have been at his peak 2 years ago and is now past his peak, but he might still be better than most. We may have an alternative player who will never be as good as Yaya was then, but is rapidly approaching being as good as he is now... that's the crossover point.

The hard part is that we tend to look upon great player with our historical specs on, so we remember the golden moments, and once in a while, we still see glimpses of that, thus fall into the age old trap of 'he's still got it'. That's when you end up in the same situation as Liverpool with Gerrard... clinging on to those less and less frequent moments, and overlooking the week in week out mediocrity.

Ferguson was a master at this, seeming to move so many great players on (not always for technical reasons admittedly when many fans thought it was too soon to let players go). No sentiment.
Yaya will never get better. That's a fact. His value is diminishing every transfer window, and his great moments are getting few and far between. We just can't let the odd fantastic goal sway us, and cling on for too long.

Our future is without him, just as it is without every player eventually.... it's time to let him go, take the money and invest it in a quality buy for the next 5 years.

Sadly for us I think that point was reached somewhere between last season and this .

 

[80s Shorts]

Re: Player topic: Yaya Toure (2014/15)

Any coincidence that yaya looks uninterested and nasri has kicked off and is not getting picked? Big mates these two arent they?

Not rocket science is it. Pair of soft twats the both of them.