Players season ratings

[Shaelumstash]

Because of the results they show up ?

Exactly.

@OB1 answer me as honestly as you can, do you think it's accurate to score DeBruyne 9.37 out of 10 for his performance on Sunday? Close to the perfect game? Close to the best game ever played by a footballer in the history of the sport? Personally I think 9.37 out of 10 might be stretching it, just a tad.

The algorithm could be created by a think tank of Ferguson, Guardiola, Lippi and Sacchi, but it still wouldn't make it an accurate way of judging a player. Statistics can not tell you whether a player made the intelligent pass. Whether they made the intelligent run. Whether they read the play and closed down the space in the right way.

Statistics in Amercian sports are extremely useful. Those sports are based on "plays" - 5 seconds of action that are usually dictated exactly by the coach's instructions. Football is completely different, it's a fluid game with comparatively fewer stoppages. It relies a lot more on player's intelligence and intuition than it does following out a manager's instruction second to second.

Rebounds, assists, yards gained, RBI's, base hits etc are an essential tool for judging a player. The stat we have in football that is of equivalent relevance is goals. The average amount of goals a footballer scores is usually a pretty accurate stat to evaluate whether they are likely to score more goals in the future.

Other stats are relevant in certain circumstances, assists, clean sheets, yards covered etc, but they only tell you a very small part of the story. It's harder to get assists if Cameron Jerome is your centre forward. It's harder to keep a clean sheet if Roberto Martinez is your manager. It's harder to cover yards if your manager has told you to sit in front of the back 4 and not move.

There is no "right way" to play football. There is no "perfect player". The cliche that it is a game of opinions is absolutely true. Sam Alladyce may look at Robert Huth and say he's a brilliant, physical, no nonsense defender. Pep Guardiola may look at him and say he's clumsy and makes bad decisions with the ball. The stats couldn't tell them that though. There will never be a stat for football intelligence, and that's the most important aspect of a footballer's make up to many manager's.

Even if the brain's trust above got together to try to create an "intelligence stat" it would be impossible. Sacchi might say the intelligent ball for Huth to play is a square ball to the right back, keep possession. Ferguson might say the intelligent ball is in to the channel for the winger to run on to. Guardiola might say it's in to the centre midfielder's feet. There will never be a consensus about what the correct decision is in every circumstance, so it's impossible to put a statistic on it.

I'll finish by quoting Ade Cooper - the chief scout of Sunderland. Bearing in mind Sam Alladyce is the manager in the league who places the most relevance on statistics:

"This will change the way we look at games,’ he said. ‘Everything we’ve been told is important - passing statistics, possession statistics, squad rotation, they’re proving it all wrong."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...r-champion-Claudio-Ranieri.html#ixzz48LclG2dU
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[jon stakes]

messi scored just 9 goals in his first season at barca.
ronaldo scored 9 goals as well in his first season at barca. all at age 19.
at age 19 and in his first season nacho has has scored 13 goals for us and mostly from the bench. what else do we want from this young lad dat costs us absolute nothing..each time he plays,the expectation is high and we want him to play like some 100 million pound player. for fuks sake this guy is stil in the development stage of his career and any undue pressure might ruin him.
obviously there are flaws in his game but, with REGULAR playing time and proper GUIDANCE he will become THE FINISHED ARTICLE
i'll rate him a 10/10. he can only get better

To be exact:
Kelechi Iheanacho 2015/2016 (18/19 yo) 13 goals, 5 assists, 1126 minutes
Lionel Messi 2005/2006 (18 yo) 8 goals, 6 assists, 1405 minutes
Lionel Messi 2006/2007 (19 yo) 17 goals, 4 assists, 2754 minutes
Cristiano Ronaldo 2003/2004 (17/18 yo) 6 goals, 7 assists, 2269 minutes
Cristiano Ronaldo 2004/2005 (18/19 yo) 9 goals, 6 assists, 3709 minutes

I would underline the huge difference in playing time. And Iheanacho still has one game to better his stats.

Maybe not a 10, but definitely a 9.

I however truely dislike the Aguero / Iheanacho combo. It seems detrimental as Aguero plays more selfishly than usual as if threatened by Iheanacho. Also none of them is a traget man.

 

[jon stakes]

Don't know if anyone else has copied these in as I have note read every page but these are the ratings from whoscored.com and show some interesting divergence from the what people see. I would rank things differently based on my observations but I think these give a fairer indication of actual contribution than most of the contributions that I have bothered to read.

WhoScored.com Ratings are based on a unique, comprehensive statistical algorithm, calculated live during the game. There are over 200 raw statistics included in the calculation of a player'’s/team’'s rating, weighted according to their influence within the game. Every event of importance is taken into account, with a positive or negative effect on ratings weighted in relation to its area on the pitch and its outcome.

Nicolás Otamendi 7.50

Kevin De Bruyne 7.45

Sergio Agüero 7.40

Vincent Kompany 7.28

David Silva 7.28

Gaël Clichy 7.26

Yaya Touré 7.26

Fernandinho 7.18

Aleksandar Kolarov 7.14

Bacary Sagna 7.13

Pablo Zabaleta 6.97

Fernando 6.95

Eliaquim Mangala 6.91

Jesús Navas 6.87

Raheem Sterling 6.78

Willy Caballero 6.76

Fabian Delph 6.75

Joe Hart 6.73

Samir Nasri 6.72

Martín Demichelis 6.64

Wilfried Bony 6.62

Kelechi Iheanacho6.53

The problem with the Whoscored rating is that it gives a game where a player played 1 minute an equal weight as a game where the player played 90 minutes. A player with a large amount of sub appearances, like Iheanacho, will obviously have low stats, because his sub appearances will pull him down (all of them weighted 6 or around that).

 

[leighton]

These ratings are always hard to give. A lot of players have let themselves down this season. While few were hit and miss.

Hart: Never let us down this season has pulled off some brilliant saves in Champions League and league games future club captain for me 8
Willy : Few games few mistakes but redeemed himself in the League Cup final 6
Sagna : Our best fullback got up and down the pitch regularly still needs replacing in the long term 7
Zaba : Was 1 of the best fullbacks in the league for years his powers seem to be gone now he will always be a club legend poor season by his high standards 5
Clichy: Hit and miss started slowly but since winning his place in the starting line up has been solid 6
Kolarov : Shows he can add so much going forward but has been poor this year not been his best 4.5
MDM : When he played looked the man that just stole a living. Done us a short term job but sadly 1 season too much 3.5
Mangala : Jury is still out for me with him see signs of him being a good defender but prone to make the odd fuck up still should be in squad next year 5.5
Ottamendi : Expensive flop. He has been poor this season. Thought he would of been the best defender but the price tag and new league has taken its toll. Can come good shows signs he has it to be a good defender next season is huge for him 5.5
Kompany: When he plays he has been great all season sadly injuries ruined this 1 for him apart from that he be our best defender more games 6.5
Nasri : Injured way too much but when played contributed a fair bit 4
Navas : ever present and is keeping out Sterling and others lacks a end product but a good season for him 6
Sterling : The price tag is too much for him to handle he will learn more showed some good good bright sparks but injuries and not MP flavour a poor ending. Expected more. 5.5
KDB : The only signing that delivered. Can be unplayable but needs to grab the big games by the scruff more a great season barring injury Player of the year 8.5
Silva : Poor by his high high high standards too many niggles has him out of sorts still capable of a bit of magic 6.5
Yaya : Finished a great servant for the club scored important goals this season let himself down no workrate 4
Delph : Injuries and played out of position lacks the standard needed 4
Fernando : Poor start and a solid finish from him works hard 6
Fernandhino: Average can be brilliant and can be iffy gets the odd goal here and there Solid 6.5
Bony : Lacks the confidence and has been poor this season 3.5
Iheanacho: Looks like a real bright spark can be pleased with his season scored goals and looks good on the ball 6.5
Kun : without him we be fucked goalscoring machine not as prolific as seasons before in the big games needs to show more. 8

 

[GaudinoMotors]

These ratings are always hard to give. A lot of players have let themselves down this season. While few were hit and miss.

Hart: Never let us down this season has pulled off some brilliant saves in Champions League and league games future club captain for me 8
Willy : Few games few mistakes but redeemed himself in the League Cup final 6
Sagna : Our best fullback got up and down the pitch regularly still needs replacing in the long term 7
Zaba : Was 1 of the best fullbacks in the league for years his powers seem to be gone now he will always be a club legend poor season by his high standards 5
Clichy: Hit and miss started slowly but since winning his place in the starting line up has been solid 6
Kolarov : Shows he can add so much going forward but has been poor this year not been his best 5.5
MDM : When he played looked the man that just stole a living. Done us a short term job but sadly 1 season too much 3.5
Mangala : Jury is still out for me with him see signs of him being a good defender but prone to make the odd fuck up still should be in squad next year 5.5
Ottamendi : Expensive flop. He has been poor this season. Thought he would of been the best defender but the price tag and new league has taken its toll. Can come good shows signs he has it to be a good defender next season is huge for him 5.5
Kompany: When he plays he has been great all season sadly injuries ruined this 1 for him apart from that he be our best defender more games 6.5
Nasri : Injured way too much but when played contributed a fair bit 4
Navas : ever present and is keeping out Sterling and others lacks a end product but a good season for him 6
Sterling : The price tag is too much for him to handle he will learn more showed some good good bright sparks but injuries and not MP flavour a poor ending. Expected more. 5.5
KDB : The only signing that delivered. Can be unplayable but needs to grab the big games by the scruff more a great season barring injury Player of the year 8.5
Silva : Poor by his high high high standards too many niggles has him out of sorts still capable of a bit of magic 6.5
Yaya : Finished a great servant for the club scored important goals this season let himself down no workrate 4
Delph : Injuries and played out of position lacks the standard needed 4
Fernando : Poor start and a solid finish from him works hard 6
Fernandhino: Average can be brilliant and can be iffy gets the odd goal here and there Solid 6.5
Bony : Lacks the confidence and has been poor this season 3.5
Iheanacho: Looks like a real bright spark can be pleased with his season scored goals and looks good on the ball 6.5
Kun : without him we be fucked goalscoring machine not as prolific as seasons before in the big games needs to show more. 8

Your Kolarov rating undermines the rest

 

[leighton]

Your Kolarov rating undermines the rest

It was ment to be 4.5 shockingly poor at times.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Exactly.

@OB1 answer me as honestly as you can, do you think it's accurate to score DeBruyne 9.37 out of 10 for his performance on Sunday? Close to the perfect game? Close to the best game ever played by a footballer in the history of the sport? Personally I think 9.37 out of 10 might be stretching it, just a tad.

The algorithm could be created by a think tank of Ferguson, Guardiola, Lippi and Sacchi, but it still wouldn't make it an accurate way of judging a player. Statistics can not tell you whether a player made the intelligent pass. Whether they made the intelligent run. Whether they read the play and closed down the space in the right way.

Statistics in Amercian sports are extremely useful. Those sports are based on "plays" - 5 seconds of action that are usually dictated exactly by the coach's instructions. Football is completely different, it's a fluid game with comparatively fewer stoppages. It relies a lot more on player's intelligence and intuition than it does following out a manager's instruction second to second.

Rebounds, assists, yards gained, RBI's, base hits etc are an essential tool for judging a player. The stat we have in football that is of equivalent relevance is goals. The average amount of goals a footballer scores is usually a pretty accurate stat to evaluate whether they are likely to score more goals in the future.

Other stats are relevant in certain circumstances, assists, clean sheets, yards covered etc, but they only tell you a very small part of the story. It's harder to get assists if Cameron Jerome is your centre forward. It's harder to keep a clean sheet if Roberto Martinez is your manager. It's harder to cover yards if your manager has told you to sit in front of the back 4 and not move.

There is no "right way" to play football. There is no "perfect player". The cliche that it is a game of opinions is absolutely true. Sam Alladyce may look at Robert Huth and say he's a brilliant, physical, no nonsense defender. Pep Guardiola may look at him and say he's clumsy and makes bad decisions with the ball. The stats couldn't tell them that though. There will never be a stat for football intelligence, and that's the most important aspect of a footballer's make up to many manager's.

Even if the brain's trust above got together to try to create an "intelligence stat" it would be impossible. Sacchi might say the intelligent ball for Huth to play is a square ball to the right back, keep possession. Ferguson might say the intelligent ball is in to the channel for the winger to run on to. Guardiola might say it's in to the centre midfielder's feet. There will never be a consensus about what the correct decision is in every circumstance, so it's impossible to put a statistic on it.

I'll finish by quoting Ade Cooper - the chief scout of Sunderland. Bearing in mind Sam Alladyce is the manager in the league who places the most relevance on statistics:

"This will change the way we look at games,’ he said. ‘Everything we’ve been told is important - passing statistics, possession statistics, squad rotation, they’re proving it all wrong."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...r-champion-Claudio-Ranieri.html#ixzz48LclG2dU
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

There are at least 100 incremental points between 9 and 10. In any case 10 out of 10 is a ceiling score and not indicative of the best ever game in the history of world. A bit like ice skating or something similar where 10 out of 10 is not unusual :) 10 out of 10 scores are still very rare - Aguero would have got 10/10 for his 5 against Newcastle. If he had scored 9 goals he still would have got 10/10 - so a ceiling.

I don't think anyone will dispute a lot of what you say in your post ( I don't) but even then the algorithm works to an extent. 7 of the top 8 "stats" players in 14/15 were from the top 3 of Chelsea, City and Arsenal - Hazard, Sanchez, Aguero, Fabregas, Cazorlz, Silva, Ozil. This year more of the same - Mahrez, Vardy, Kante, Payet, Kane etc are all in the top 10.

Back to KDB, his stat score in the Real Madrid game was, I think,the 2nd lowest in the City team. That is no surprise to me or you because he was awful.

The Arsenal game was completely different. He was the "stat" MOTM comfortably. Maybe you haven't had the benefit of watching the game back and seen how really effective he was? I say this because I form perceptions at the game and sometimes they might change when I watch the recording. Alternatively, maybe you just take somewhat of an extreme position (releative to most on here) with KDB and take pleasure in discrediting him as evidenced in the KDB thread when you were posting erroneous stats as "evidence" to substantiate your arguments.

Here is a flavour of how he perfomed against Arsenal relative to the 22 players + subs in a selection of categories:

Goal Attempts - 2nd
On Target - 1st
Goals - 1st equal
Key Passes - 1st
Dribbles - 4th
Dispossessed - 1st equal
Attempted tackles - 2nd (behind Ramsey)
Successful Tackles - 3rd (behind Ramsey and Otta)
Crosses - 1st
Accurate Crosses - 1st
Nbr of passes - 10th

 

[oliverz4]

I think the main reason De Bruynes been inconsistent as people have said is because he is always played out on the left when he isn't really a winger, he's more of a playmaker through the middle either due to injuries or other players being in bad form, plus he did just come back from a nasty injury not long ago so be fair to him, Fernandinho is good has done well especially when compared to other players in his position but I wouldn't put him as player of the season as he tries hard but I don't always see him as the most technically gifted, a bit like Milner who wasn't either, it's hard to draw a player of the season from this season I know but I'd say Aguero more than anyone just because of the important goals he scores and his goal game ratio is always top notch, never lets us down.

 

[Neville Kneville]

There are at least 100 incremental points between 9 and 10. In any case 10 out of 10 is a ceiling score and not indicative of the best ever game in the history of world. A bit like ice skating or something similar where 10 out of 10 is not unusual :) 10 out of 10 scores are still very rare - Aguero would have got 10/10 for his 5 against Newcastle. If he had scored 9 goals he still would have got 10/10 - so a ceiling.

I don't think anyone will dispute a lot of what you say in your post ( I don't) but even then the algorithm works to an extent. 7 of the top 8 "stats" players in 14/15 were from the top 3 of Chelsea, City and Arsenal - Hazard, Sanchez, Aguero, Fabregas, Cazorlz, Silva, Ozil. This year more of the same - Mahrez, Vardy, Kante, Payet, Kane etc are all in the top 10.

Back to KDB, his stat score in the Real Madrid game was, I think,the 2nd lowest in the City team. That is no surprise to me or you because he was awful.

The Arsenal game was completely different. He was the "stat" MOTM comfortably. Maybe you haven't had the benefit of watching the game back and seen how really effective he was? I say this because I form perceptions at the game and sometimes they might change when I watch the recording. Alternatively, maybe you just take somewhat of an extreme position (releative to most on here) with KDB and take pleasure in discrediting him as evidenced in the KDB thread when you were posting erroneous stats as "evidence" to substantiate your arguments.

Here is a flavour of how he perfomed against Arsenal relative to the 22 players + subs in a selection of categories:

Goal Attempts - 2nd
On Target - 1st
Goals - 1st equal
Key Passes - 1st
Dribbles - 4th
Dispossessed - 1st equal
Attempted tackles - 2nd (behind Ramsey)
Successful Tackles - 3rd (behind Ramsey and Otta)
Crosses - 1st
Accurate Crosses - 1st
Nbr of passes - 10th

That's where stats are very useful, to show how many times a player does something. Also useful to show how far a player has run & what speed etc.

Other than that, no use at all. No info given there for the number of times DeBruyne went missing from his job. No detail on the real quality of anything, only the statistical value.

He technically got some 'tackles' in. So he gets a stat for it. How difficult were they ? Should he have got a lot more in ? Etc etc etc.

Stats are a guide to help judge a performance, nothing more. The main judgement depends on the difficulty involved & the nature of the job required.

 

[Shaelumstash]

There are at least 100 incremental points between 9 and 10. In any case 10 out of 10 is a ceiling score and not indicative of the best ever game in the history of world. A bit like ice skating or something similar where 10 out of 10 is not unusual :) 10 out of 10 scores are still very rare - Aguero would have got 10/10 for his 5 against Newcastle. If he had scored 9 goals he still would have got 10/10 - so a ceiling.

I don't think anyone will dispute a lot of what you say in your post ( I don't) but even then the algorithm works to an extent. 7 of the top 8 "stats" players in 14/15 were from the top 3 of Chelsea, City and Arsenal - Hazard, Sanchez, Aguero, Fabregas, Cazorlz, Silva, Ozil. This year more of the same - Mahrez, Vardy, Kante, Payet, Kane etc are all in the top 10.

Back to KDB, his stat score in the Real Madrid game was, I think,the 2nd lowest in the City team. That is no surprise to me or you because he was awful.

The Arsenal game was completely different. He was the "stat" MOTM comfortably. Maybe you haven't had the benefit of watching the game back and seen how really effective he was? I say this because I form perceptions at the game and sometimes they might change when I watch the recording. Alternatively, maybe you just take somewhat of an extreme position (releative to most on here) with KDB and take pleasure in discrediting him as evidenced in the KDB thread when you were posting erroneous stats as "evidence" to substantiate your arguments.

Here is a flavour of how he perfomed against Arsenal relative to the 22 players + subs in a selection of categories:

Goal Attempts - 2nd
On Target - 1st
Goals - 1st equal
Key Passes - 1st
Dribbles - 4th
Dispossessed - 1st equal
Attempted tackles - 2nd (behind Ramsey)
Successful Tackles - 3rd (behind Ramsey and Otta)
Crosses - 1st
Accurate Crosses - 1st
Nbr of passes - 10th

Mate are you a mathematician? Seriously, I'm not having a go, but you seem completely blinded by statistics to the point of obsession and I think it's clouding your ability to judge a football match by watching it with your own eyes.

The DeBruyne thread is a good example of what I'm talking about. As opposed to discussing the point that our best form came in our first 5 games, you obsessed over the fact that DeBruyne played 70 minutes in one of those games as if it somehow made my point completely irrelevant and flawed. This isn't a mathematical paper where one wrong statistic will mean you fail your exam, we're just chatting about football.

DeBruyne did play for those 70 minutes, I admitted I got that wrong and held my hands up. But my point remains that our best form this season came at the start of the season before DeBruyne had signed. You think the fact I missed out on those 70 minutes completely invalidates my argument. If it was a statistical analysis paper I could totally understand why I'd get marked down, but again, I don't mean to sound mean, but you come across like Sheldon off The Big Bang Theory when you obsess over a small mistake on statistics. Look at the wider point, not just the minute detail.

Again your point about the "100 incremental points between 9 and 10" you're turning this in to an academic paper, it's the wrong forum (pun intended) for that. Essentially DeBruyne got scored at over 93% for his performance on Sunday by that algorithm. As you say, 100 is the maximum score. So in simple terms DeBruyne's performance was only 7% away from being the highest possible score he could achieve. There is not a football man on earth, not De Bruyne himself or his own mother that would argue that to be accurate. It's completely flawed.

The statistics or the algorithm is not an accurate representation of performance. It is simply an accurate representation of the data that has been mined.

It's like when you see these articles in the paper every few months about some researchers at MIT that have found the perfect algorithm for the funniest joke. The joke it produces usually isn't very funny. Because you see, some things can't be explained by mathematics. Humour, art, football, there is no algorithm to explain them. I know that's probably very difficulty to accept as mathematician, you learn that everything can be explained through numbers and data, but it can't. There is no algorithm for Michelangelo's architecture, Jimi Hendrix's guitar playing, Eddie Murphy's comedy timing, Jennifer Lopez's bum, David Silva's vision, why a babies laugh makes you smile, they're just all beautiful and you have to accept that beauty can't always be explained by maths or science.

Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck who was the "stat Man of the match". The "attempted tackles" stat as an example, it's completely irrelevant. If you look at the stats of which defenders attempted the most tackles, it's often no indication whatsoever of how good they are. Rio Ferdinand used to score terribly on "attempted tackles" because he didn't have to tackle players because he read the game so well that he'd intercept the ball before it even had chance to become a tackle. You'll then argue to me well look at the interceptions stat then. But that only tells you half the story too. If a player in possession sees his mate marked by Ferdinand, he'll think twice about giving him the ball because he knows how good he is, how he's already anticipating the pass.

The stats will only ever get you so far in football.