Political relations between UK-EU

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

For me the modern North needs to be convinced by us that they will have a better future with us. (Perhaps through the EU)
Whatever happens it needs to be permanent.

THIS.
Alot (most/all) of the issues up here are very negative...its still a them and us scenario....people dont want change because of "themmuns".

No scare stories, no "project fear"....just the societal (and financial) benefits it could bring

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I did say we need to convince the unionists. I'd rather go federal with the provinces tbh

Maybe sidetracking the thread...what would that mean/involve?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

There were claims a few years ago of this happening by now but what the studies show, is that even a Catholic majority doesn’t result in an upward trend for a United Ireland.

In a 2018 poll, 45% said they were Catholic but only 25% said they were solely Irish as their identity and that roughly translates into unification supporters.

So Catholicism might overtake Protestantism in NI, or may have already, but only just, but it’s not going to be enough to move enough into the direction of independence.

Independence in NI is less popular than Scotland was in 2014.

The vote is never going to be held anyway, there’s too much at stake.

I dont think the Catholic/Protestant thing is as indicative anymore...

I'm (supposedly) Protestant....my wife is Catholic....many prods i know are open to some sort of reunification....its not as simple as saying Protestant vote this way and Catholic vote the other anymnore

 

[Ban-jani]

I dont think the Catholic/Protestant thing is as indicative anymore...

I'm (supposedly) Protestant....my wife is Catholic....many prods i know are open to some sort of reunification....its not as simple as saying Protestant vote this way and Catholic vote the other anymnore

That’s kind of the point I was making, kind of.

That Catholicism isn’t now a precursor to being a nationalist over loyalist.

The study I got my figures from was actually making that point.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I thought it was an Ireland wide vote for a unification referendum ... not just Northern Ireland. Perhaps our Irish friends could clarify?

If it became evident in NI that here was a desire, it could then be put to referendum.....i believe there would then be a separate one in the Republic too

I can understand and partly agree with @Ban-jani in that there wont be a referendum soon....i think 10 years is wishful thinking, but there will be one...but at the moment the unionists in Stormont have enough to prevent it happening. Im not 100% certain a straight yes/no vote for reunification would produce a yes answer anyway.

And thats where the process needs to be thought out by those in favour. A yes/no scenario will never solve the problems.....its more about integrating and amalgamating....and imo, Brexit can help facilitate it.

Some Unionists will be scared that its the road to a United Ireland....but if we hold on to and develop the supposed benefits that NI now has we could potentially keep everyone happy.....a wee bit more of a United Ireland whilst still remaining within the UK

 

[west didsblue]

THIS.
Alot (most/all) of the issues up here are very negative...its still a them and us scenario....people dont want change because of "themmuns".

No scare stories, no "project fear"....just the societal (and financial) benefits it could bring

Out of interest, given the chance what would you vote for right now?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Out of interest, given the chance what would you vote for right now?

There wont (shouldnt) be a Yes/No question to Irish Unification....but if there was, i'd vote yes

 

[stonerblue]

We’ve got a fair and sensible immigration policy, for the first time since my parents were young.

hahahaha, good one.

 

[Ban-jani]

hahahaha, good one.

What’s wrong with it?

 

[meltonblue]

No problem mate - I understand that the reality of how programmes work and what would have been different is confusing for those without direct experience

But - you say:

"The WA and what Johnson signed up to, there’s an argument that you can blame May for some
of it. Not for the future agreement though, that’s either being disingenuous or just not understanding it at all."

I have to point out that you are 100% wrong - and this is not even debateable if you understand these matters (no barb in that comment - just a fact) - so no, I am not being at all disingenuous - just correct. IMO - you can hardly comment that you are not an audience, which I assume meant not experienced, for such matters and then criticise someone that is very knowledgeable of them.

But yes - let's leave it there

I meant I’m not your target audience as I do have more than a little knowledge of it. The mandates for the future relationship were only published by both sides in Feb 2020. You’re clearly very knowledgeable on brexit so you’ll know that for visas, the target in the political declaration was to aim for visa free travel if possible. That was always going to have to be part of the future agreement negotiations though as it’s clearly dependent on other things too, like agreements on services.

Arguing that solutioning comes before mandate and also saying you know a lot about programme management seems a pretty incompatible position to me though.