Political relations between UK-EU

[stonerblue]

She’s a Yank, we all know how daft those cunts are. People can call themselves anything they want, but it doesn’t mean they are that, especially if they don’t understand the terms they’re using.

What were you saying about 'causing division' a few posts ago?

''she's a Yank, we all know how daft those cunts are''

 

[stonerblue]

They hear the word 'libertarian' and think it means 'stars and stripes forever'.

Who's 'they'?

 

[Metal Biker]

Who's 'they'?

Keep up, old man. MAGA types.

 

[smudgedj]

Daniel Hannan is the person behind the Initiative for Free trade. A libertarian ultra free market front..

One of the people involved in Hannan's group and on its International Advisory board is Jorge Quiroga, he was Vice President to Hugo Banzer the brutal Bolivian dictator who protected a man called Klaus Barbie.

For those who have not heard of Klaus Barbie, look him up.

Hannan's fathers name was Hugh Ralston Hannan Wilson, Hannan dropped the Wilson, he claims as a child to have visited family in Santa Cruz Bolivia (Hannan was born in Peru) , Santa Cruz is where Klaus Barbie lived.

Hannan is a man unfit to be in the HoL, he is dangerous, very very fucking dangerous.

Klaus Barbie lived in Cochabamba.

 

[stonerblue]

Keep up, old man. MAGA types.

Funny that cos the post you liked and quoted and agreed with is pure racism towards Americans. No fucker mentioned 'MAGA types'' whatever the fuck they are.

 

[mcfc1632]

Yeah I have.

Basic concept of left vs right on anything that isn’t a straight line and you flop.

It’s alright, I’m here to explain to you.

You should have acted ages ago on this

I am holding you personally responsible for years of high-handedness that a lot of us have suffered

It seems that Bob is not the messiah - just a very naught boy;-)

 

[Vic]

Think I was more amused by the idea the ‘US must act accordingly’. That’s telling them. The Americans will definitely sit up and take notice now.

Actually, I was more intrigued by the success of our new trade deals, largely copying what we got in the EU. We've paid our subs so the cost of negotiating those deals is already paid for. Our latest publicity stunt is to apply to join CPTPP but there will be little to negotiate there - it's take it or leave it to accede to an existing treaty - except if the CPTPP was looking to do a deal with the EU, would they really want the UK getting all EU-phobic about it?

 

[Metal Biker]

Funny that cos the post you liked and quoted and agreed with is pure racism towards Americans. No fucker mentioned 'MAGA types'' whatever the fuck they are.

Americans aren't a 'race', numbnuts. And it was a discussion referencing those who stormed the Capitol Building yesterday, namely the woman who was shot and killed who called herself 'Libertarian' though her views and actions suggest otherwise, but you already knew that, didn't you, you WUM.

You don't know what 'MAGA' is... oh dear.

 

[mcfc1632]

Yeah fair enough you are right that you have consistently acknowledged what you euphemistically refer to as “teething problems” or what might properly be referred to as direct and immediate impacts on individuals, whether they be Brexit supporting eel exporters or musicians trying to make a living. That you are happy for those individuals to bear the cost in the cause of long term gain.

You have me wrong also. I don’t think I’ve ever predicted or wished for instant chaos or apocalypse, I’ve always been in the let’s wait and see camp and that’s where I still am. 6 days is hardly sufficient to judge Brexit a success or failure, especially in the midst of the economic impact of the pandemic.

You’ll struggle to persuade me that leaving aside any economic benefit Brexit is anything other than a backwards move. For the billions spent so far implementing Brexit and for those who do suffer the immediate negative impacts let’s all hope that we eventually as a nation see the real benefits. I’m not sure when would be a suitable time frame to take stock of that

To be clear:

"You have me wrong also. I don’t think I’ve ever predicted or wished for instant chaos or apocalypse, I’ve always been in the let’s wait and see camp and that’s where I still am."

I was not meaning to suggest that you are one of those with such hopes - I mentioned 'some'

Apologies if I was not clear on that

 

[mcfc1632]

Yeah fair enough you are right that you have consistently acknowledged what you euphemistically refer to as “teething problems” or what might properly be referred to as direct and immediate impacts on individuals, whether they be Brexit supporting eel exporters or musicians trying to make a living. That you are happy for those individuals to bear the cost in the cause of long term gain.

You have me wrong also. I don’t think I’ve ever predicted or wished for instant chaos or apocalypse, I’ve always been in the let’s wait and see camp and that’s where I still am. 6 days is hardly sufficient to judge Brexit a success or failure, especially in the midst of the economic impact of the pandemic.

You’ll struggle to persuade me that leaving aside any economic benefit Brexit is anything other than a backwards move. For the billions spent so far implementing Brexit and for those who do suffer the immediate negative impacts let’s all hope that we eventually as a nation see the real benefits. I’m not sure when would be a suitable time frame to take stock of that

Re:

"You’ll struggle to persuade me that leaving aside any economic benefit Brexit is anything other than a backwards move."

I won't need to try - I have consistently stated that this will become clear as the EU as to deal with the major fault lines that are inescapable

You may remember these exchanges when that unfolds

 

[stonerblue]

Americans aren't a 'race', numbnuts. And it was a discussion referencing those who stormed the Capitol Building yesterday, namely the woman who was shot and killed who called herself 'Libertarian' though her views and actions suggest otherwise, but you already knew that, didn't you, you WUM.

You don't know what 'MAGA' is... oh dear.

UN's definition of racial discrimination, numbfuckinnuts.

any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[22]

 

[Metal Biker]

UN's definition of racial discrimination, numbfuckinnuts.

any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[22]

Your premise is that by saying that Donald Trump supporting MAGA type Americans claiming to be Libertarian in their political mindset, when in reality they aren't, is in your mind a racist statement?

 

[Rascal]

Klaus Barbie lived in Cochabamba.

I am not familiar with the geography of Bolivia so thanks.

 

[Rascal]

I've gotta say i have learned more about brexit from Bobs posts than i have from anybody else on or off here.
As for brexit positives, i'm struggling to find any and would gladly welcome any being pointed out, and from any poster.

Socialist nirvana and legalised weed ;)

 

[mcfc1632]

Back in the Summer I told the misery merchants to wake up the next day, turn on their computers and look for positives about Brexit. I thought it would do their mental health some good because their obsession with the negatives that they trawl the internet or their Twitter echo chambers for must be doing their general mood no good whatsoever.

Bob replied to that and said something along the lines of “it’s the Leavers role to post positive news about Brexit, it’s my role is to take the piss.”

So he’s not even doing it in good faith. He’s on the WUM. He isn’t here for anything but to oppose anything about Brexit, and he’s not in his own.

It’s just more of this disease of causing divisions in society.

We Leavers do need to be careful....

For years certain posters have tried to make 100% of the topic about trade with the EU

Well - unless they are ridiculing Leavers for having other views.

Now the apocalypse is stubbornly refusing to make an appearance - some seem to now want to obsess about very narrow parts of trade - and dominate the thread with that narrowness

Of course - it would have surely mean easier and a better look, for some to just admit something like: ".....well this is going better than I expected....." - but alas, that seems to much to expect

For me - I am happy to 'remain' - very happy and content that this act of Leaving appears to be more comprehensive than expected and the prospects for a rejoin are fading very quickly indeed

 

[Rascal]

Calling yourself a Libertarian does not make you a Libertarian anymore than calling yourself intelligent does. Your actions and values reflect that.

Is that like when people say the USSR was Communist and it wasn't

Or is that against the rules

 

[mcfc1632]

...........You obviously don’t give a shit about any of the short term negative consequences for anyone.

Oh - I do - you do me a disservice there - I absolutely do.

But - I give more of a shit about the much more serious negative consequences for everyone had we not left.

 

[mcfc1632]

Trust you to cite an article by a research fellow at the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom (part of the climate change denying right-wing Heritage Foundation).

Hey - I just posted an article from the Washington Times

 

[stonerblue]

Your premise is that by saying that Donald Trump supporting MAGA type Americans claiming to be Libertarian in their political mindset, when in reality they aren't, is in your mind a racist statement?

For fucks sake..

No post, anywhere, that i have quoted or responded to has ever said that.

The post i called racist said, as you well know, ''She’s a Yank, we all know how daft those cunts are.''

There's no fucking 'premise' or insinuation or alluding involved.

 

[Rascal]

That’s because there’s a lack of understanding that politics isn’t linear, it’s probably not even 2D, it’s probably more accurate to show the political scale in a cube.

But people still put people or ideals within politics on a piece of string and can’t understand graphs like Ban’s.

Its more complicated than that. Probably more like a Dodecahedron, with internal lines inside connecting certain points on different parts of the Dodecahedron. And then certain positions on each of the interconnecting lines. Because whether we like it or not agree with it or not, all political positions are about how we organise society. You can be a Liberal Communist, a Social Fascist, a Conservative Nationalist, a National Socialist, an Anarcho syndicalist, an Anarcho Capitalist, A libertarian Communist, A Conservative collectivist, the list of what you can be is endless depending on how you see society. What you must never be though is a wishy washy centrist who is devoid of thought and ideology and flies with the winds of change proclaiming you have all the answers to a complicated world of different peoples, cultures and socio economic backgrounds. Never be a fence sitting ****.