Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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Do you ever stop to think if progress members had backed their democratically elected leader for the last 18 months he would now be in number10?
At least Owen Smith has realised he was wrong and admitted this in public

No I've never thought that because that is a very stupid thing to think.

Amber Valley aren't voting for Corbyn no matter what Progress members say or don't say. I like that seat - small place in Derbyshire. The most middle of the middle England brigade. There's loads of seats just like this. That seat has existed since 1983 under constant Tory rule until Blair showed up and turned it Red in 1997. Then it was consistently held by Labour until 2005 with Brown's disastrous move away from New Labour principles when it went back to Tory and stayed since then.

Corbyn has absolutely no chance of winning that or many other seats just like that. That is the whole problem.
 
John Smith died in May 1994, had he lived I and millions like me wouldn't have to have these vacuous conversations with people like you, who clearly do not support labour principles of social justice for all. In the aftermath of Smith's death a group around Blair and Brown convinced the party that the problem they had was the party itself, so they set about gutting it and turned it into a softer version of the Tories, they cobbled together this confection by triangulating as many policies from Labours political opponents as possible and served it up in a popular wrapping and sailed home to a landslide against the backdrop of a tremendously unpopular government.

What we got with Blair was soft toryism with the odd bit of social tinkering by Brown with the whole confection kept afloat by a strong economy and PPI, yet here we are are seven years after Brown collapsed with very little of the Blair/Brown social tinkering intact. We're out of the EU, stagnant living standards, a more unequal society, millions in insecure jobs, zero hours contracts, young people in debt, home ownership an impossible dream and all you can do is fantasize about a return to Blairism and accuse me of pissing on the dreams of millions, somehow relishing my ideological purity and loving every minute of our futile opposition.

Yes, I get it, you repeat it over and over again, you want to vote for something vaguely progressive and you're pissed off Labour won't serve it up for you, you keep banging on about how if only we could find Blair Mark 2 then we could take the country by storm, but where is your evidence for that? 1997?

I suggest you join the Lib Dems, the Labour party is in the process of rediscovering why it exists and re-connecting to its constituency, constructing policies with real teeth that tackle the injustices in our society. this election is a step in the right direction, it would have been great to win but from so far back it was almost impossible, but we'll get there sooner than you think. But noises off from junior Mandelsons like you are just plain annoying, you've had your day, that candy floss had no substance. Cameron once saw himself as the heir to Blair, maybe you can find a Blair Mark 2 with them.

More ideological purity tests from our Chief Inquisitor. Maybe I could put some sort of gold star on so that you and your lot will feel more at home?

And no, I don't want something "vaguely progressive to vote for". Yet again you've failed to understand the very simplistic thrust of the argument.

To help you understand, I've put together a picture for you.

hQeymOA.png[


The one on the left is what I want to achieve again because unlike you I want to help people rather than toss myself off about how great all my policies that nobody cares about are. The one on the right is your "revolutionary victory" against the weakest Tory leader since, in fact I'm not sure if there's ever been a weaker Tory leader on the campaign trail.

Oh, and for the record, when YOUR side of the Party talks about "curing social inequality" what you actually mean is "taxing the middle and upper classes". Ensuring social justice in the same way that beheading all the nobles in France was "social justice". You don't give a shit about equality and you never have done, you're just jealous of rich people and have constructed an entire political position around it.

I'd quite like to enact policies that help people in my town and others like it. You're happy with just being what you think is "right" in opposition to literally the entire country.

And considering I'm having to read through your shit anyway - you're "starting to find policies with real teeth"? Far left socialists haven't been in power in 40 years, have you only just discovered that people might actually read the crap you produce and will judge you on it? Like the electorate did on Thursday night by the way where you lost an election by 60 seats.

Here's another difference between us - we live in a time of austerity and all of those social problems that you mentioned. And I'm the only actually fucking annoyed that we've lost an election. Which continuously begs the question; what exactly are you here for because you don't seem to care about those people? You're a brigade of pointless extremists who lost by a massive margin before and will now punish the very people that you claim to be wanting to help and sentence them to another decade or more of Tory rule, because not taxing the middle classes is so fucking unpalatable to you that you're willing to let working class people suffer and potentially die in order to not have to compromise it; so burning with hatred at their comparatively minuscule level of success in comparison to you.

Class warriors? With friends like you the disadvantaged in society don't need enemies.

The far left have been a joke in British politics for at least 40 years and remain so today. A few Remainers swinging your way in order to try and stop a potential economic disaster and a higher than expected young vote due to the growth of social media marketing nicked from Bernie Sanders has got your head right back in the clouds. You're political Scousers where your year will always be next year, your election always the next one or possibly the one after that, and a complete delusion to how much the country ridicules all of your pie in the sky policies.

New Labour won every general election it ever stood in. The moment Brown stepped away from it towards the left of the party, it all came crashing down. Then we went further left with Ed who also lost his election and have gone even further left with Corbyn who also lost his election. Outside of literally letting Big Len run or maybe having some sort of channeling session for Joseph Stalin, you're running out of left to go and you still haven't managed to win an election. The country does not buy what you are selling; it hasn't done in decades and it never will.
 
Being reported that May had her resignation speech drafted on Friday morning.
I have also heard that Rupert stormed out of a post election party at the Times when the exit poll was announced on Thursday night
 
More ideological purity tests from our Chief Inquisitor. Maybe I could put some sort of gold star on so that you and your lot will feel more at home?

And no, I don't want something "vaguely progressive to vote for". Yet again you've failed to understand the very simplistic thrust of the argument.

To help you understand, I've put together a picture for you.

hQeymOA.png[


The one on the left is what I want to achieve again because unlike you I want to help people rather than toss myself off about how great all my policies that nobody cares about are. The one on the right is your "revolutionary victory" against the weakest Tory leader since, in fact I'm not sure if there's ever been a weaker Tory leader on the campaign trail.

Oh, and for the record, when YOUR side of the Party talks about "curing social inequality" what you actually mean is "taxing the middle and upper classes". Ensuring social justice in the same way that beheading all the nobles in France was "social justice". You don't give a shit about equality and you never have done, you're just jealous of rich people and have constructed an entire political position around it.

I'd quite like to enact policies that help people in my town and others like it. You're happy with just being what you think is "right" in opposition to literally the entire country.

And considering I'm having to read through your shit anyway - you're "starting to find policies with real teeth"? Far left socialists haven't been in power in 40 years, have you only just discovered that people might actually read the crap you produce and will judge you on it? Like the electorate did on Thursday night by the way where you lost an election by 60 seats.

Here's another difference between us - we live in a time of austerity and all of those social problems that you mentioned. And I'm the only actually fucking annoyed that we've lost an election. Which continuously begs the question; what exactly are you here for because you don't seem to care about those people? You're a brigade of pointless extremists who lost by a massive margin before and will now punish the very people that you claim to be wanting to help and sentence them to another decade or more of Tory rule, because not taxing the middle classes is so fucking unpalatable to you that you're willing to let working class people suffer and potentially die in order to not have to compromise it; so burning with hatred at their comparatively minuscule level of success in comparison to you.

Class warriors? With friends like you the disadvantaged in society don't need enemies.

The far left have been a joke in British politics for at least 40 years and remain so today. A few Remainers swinging your way in order to try and stop a potential economic disaster and a higher than expected young vote due to the growth of social media marketing nicked from Bernie Sanders has got your head right back in the clouds. You're political Scousers where your year will always be next year, your election always the next one or possibly the one after that, and a complete delusion to how much the country ridicules all of your pie in the sky policies.

New Labour won every general election it ever stood in. The moment Brown stepped away from it towards the left of the party, it all came crashing down. Then we went further left with Ed who also lost his election and have gone even further left with Corbyn who also lost his election. Outside of literally letting Big Len run or maybe having some sort of channeling session for Joseph Stalin, you're running out of left to go and you still haven't managed to win an election. The country does not buy what you are selling; it hasn't done in decades and it never will.
Respect....
 
Being reported that May had her resignation speech drafted on Friday morning.

We need her to hang on. If they bring in someone who can ride the waves and get the Party united behind them then we really might see 5 years of a minority rule and a hard Brexit.
 
If you get into bed with someone opposed to abortion, then you really ought to give consideration to the possible consequences.

If I get into bed with someone, I always make them fill out a three page questionnaire on an extensive range of moral, ethical and philosophical issues.

If she passes that, then she has two hours to write a 1500 word essay with full bibliography on the right or not of women to choose.

You can't be too careful.
 
Mays closest advisors have resigned. Timothy was Cameron's tactician as well.
May has been presented with an ultimatum. Cabinet decisions for now - or May will be be given the push. That will last about 3 months I reckon.
 
We need her to hang on. If they bring in someone who can ride the waves and get the Party united behind them then we really might see 5 years of a minority rule and a hard Brexit.
Really can't see any possibility that she can hang on. The big danger is that whatever happens we're not going to have credible negotiators in place for Brexit and we'll end up defaulting to no deal and economic disaster.
 
My biggest worry is that as well as fucking up Brexit, May will destabilise NI by getting in to bed with the DUP to cling on to power in the short term. This could put us back years and kick off the troubles again by breaking the agreements made. If we start getting bombed by the IRA because of this twat, then I hope she is happy.
 
You sound like a US Democrat! "We almost did it but everyone seemed to help the R keep power!" Do you know how pathetic it sounds when you promote that other people helped the opposition, rather than your own candidate was good enough to win?

The further each side runs to their extreme, the less appetizing they look to the majority that lives in the center. I'm not endorsing a Tory-lite Labour Party or a Labour-lite Tory Party, but a Centrist candidate that speaks to policies and politics that a majority of the country can get behind.

Britain faces some significant challenges in the near future and now, with a weakened Conservative Party "leading" the country and a Labour Party in shambles from their missed opportunity, those challenges get even more difficult. I believe a more centrist candidate pushing more centrist policies, even if there are still significantly "Labour" imperatives included in there, is their way forward.

It's interesting that you, SWP's Back and Gelson's Dad, all of who are telling me I'm talking rubbish, aren't resident in the UK and haven't been for a while. At this moment, there can't be any "centrist policies". Austerity hasn't worked, growth is slowing, public services have been cut, real wages are going down, etc. One party is promising more of the same to reduce the deficit and the other is promising a very radical left-wing agenda that they claim will eventually reduce the deficit but will raise taxes, inject vast amounts of money into the economy and (supposedly) vastly improve public services.

So UN that context, what is a "centrist policy"? It would have to be something like "Well we won't take any more money out of the NHS but we won't put any more in either". On Brexit it would have to be a very soft Brexit, which Labour & Lib Dems are promoting anyway.

I still maintain that while Corbyn ran a brilliant campaign, there are still too many people who are turned off by him. Another leader, one with less baggage, might well have won this election with the same policies in my opinion.
 
Do you think they have a place in the Northern Assembly?
They were elected so yes, but Northern Ireland cannot be classed as a haven for peace, and if the IRA should once again resurface then how May's Government responds will decide how long she has left. Just pray she sees sense and goes within days and any successor scraps this pact and instead attempts to address the electorate's concerns which landed her party into this mess of it's own making.
 
They were elected so yes, but Northern Ireland cannot be classed as a haven for peace, and if the IRA should once again resurface then how May's Government responds will decide how long she has left. Just pray she sees sense and goes within days and any successor scraps this pact and instead attempts to address the electorate's concerns which landed her party into this mess of it's own making.
The first three words there were key mate. They were elected, they have every right to a place in Westminster.
 
If I get into bed with someone, I always make them fill out a three page questionnaire on an extensive range of moral, ethical and philosophical issues.

If she passes that, then she has two hours to write a 1500 word essay with full bibliography on the right or not of women to choose.

You can't be too careful.

Ha Ha.

Hope Mrs Magicpole doesn't read that. She'll give you a thick ear with the washing machine manual.
 
If I get into bed with someone, I always make them fill out a three page questionnaire on an extensive range of moral, ethical and philosophical issues.
If she passes that, then she has two hours to write a 1500 word essay with full bibliography on the right or not of women to choose.
You can't be too careful.
Brilliant!
 
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