PSG vs Istanbul Basaksehir suspended after 4th official accused of racism

Out of curiousity, do these Asian countries that you visit for work have hundreds of years of history dictated by invasion, colonisation, imperialism, persecution and pseudo-slavery over the country you originate from??
By that logic, it would be fine for Chinese people to use racial slurs against black people, because they never colonized any African countries. The reason, I suspect, that Bluearmy isn't offended by a particular name given to him in an Asian country that singles him out as a foreigner is because for all intents and purposes, white people are generally singled out as high-status individuals in these countries, not low status people. They are given privileges that other races don't get. Ask Filipinos or Nigerians how they're treated in certain Asian countries and you'll realise that racism now isn't solely linked to the colonial history of the country in question.
 
The whole thing is sad and the world is in a sorry state.

We're in 2020 now and the progress made since the 1970/80's has been fantastic both in society and in football itself. However, the way everything is now and the eggshells people are having to tread carefully on, it's actually set us back from all the progress that has been made.

Racism is like cancer, there is no cure and it will always be around.

Evolving as a multicultural society and respecting everyones beliefs and upbringing is how you reduce it, by constantly showing symbols, gestures and sayings is actually dividing people more and more.
Agreed.Shutting down debate and alternative opinion causes further harm too,as it reduces the opportunity to find a solution or at least neutral ground.
 
Out of curiosity, are you suggesting 2 wrongs make a right? Or have I completely missed the point you’re making?
Nowhere did I suggest that two wrongs make a right. Please don't turn this into a strawman. I was simply asking the OP to consider the historical context. He in his own right and as he is entitled to, brushed off those comments made in his direction. However, hypothetically if we were to tweak what he said slightly and reverse the roles (i.e. someone from Asia visiting the UK), it is easy to outline something which is not wholesome at all.

"I do know i go to UK with work (or did) and im forever known as a P**i which is most likely a derogatory term for Pakistanis"

Essentially context matters. I don't know the OP's heritage, and without knowing the demographics of this forum I would say the average poster here is a white, middle-aged male who hates the rags, so assuming this holds (and correct me if I'm wrong) I can understand why he wouldn't feel upset by it (again it doesn't make it right either). Likewise I can also see how in the example where the roles are somewhat reversed for it to be deemed by the foreign visitor to be completely unacceptable owing to the considerable historical context at play here.

Further I can see why Webo (Cameroonian) and Ba (Senegalese) might not take kindly to a white European using the description that he did given the colonial past in both those countries, and their experiences as African diaspora players plying their trade across the world.
But that means its ok for some to be racist but not others. How is that equality?
Again. Nowhere did I imply that what the OP was called was acceptable.
So you think that judging the Chinese by the same standards as the west with regards to racism is wrong? It's just us then?

Have a read about how poorly the British were treated by money men up to 60 years ago if you're talking about pseudo slavery, my ancestors had very little to do with how they were treated and how other people were treated too,
Nowhere did I make a judgment either for or against the Chinese. All I was asking the OP to consider was whilst he might be able to brush a slur off easily, others based on their own context may not. One position doesn't invalidate the other.
By that logic, it would be fine for Chinese people to use racial slurs against black people, because they never colonized any African countries. The reason, I suspect, that Bluearmy isn't offended by a particular name given to him in an Asian country that singles him out as a foreigner is because for all intents and purposes, white people are generally singled out as high-status individuals in these countries, not low status people. They are given privileges that other races don't get. Ask Filipinos or Nigerians how they're treated in certain Asian countries and you'll realise that racism now isn't solely linked to the colonial history of the country in question.
I didn't advocate at any point that it's fine for any people to use slurs and I think you may actually be bolstering my point.

The OP coming from (what I assume - again correct me if I'm wrong) a ex-imperialist country like England to Asia still carries status, or privileges as you described, to this day. As you've identified this privileged treatment conferred on him may be the reason why he feels thick skinned enough and can brush off some of those derogatory comments.

Someone from those Asian countries, who if they come to England and who may not have those same privileges might find derogatory comments much less palatable though. That's the point I was making.

And I agree that racism doesn't solely rely on colonial history to fester (there's minority groups that are scapegoated and persecuted in every country on the planet whether they be ex-colonial powers or not) yet it's also important to not completely divorce it from the historical context either.
 
Nowhere did I suggest that two wrongs make a right. Please don't turn this into a strawman. I was simply asking the OP to consider the historical context. He in his own right and as he is entitled to, brushed off those comments made in his direction. However, hypothetically if we were to tweak what he said slightly and reverse the roles (i.e. someone from Asia visiting the UK), it is easy to outline something which is not wholesome at all.

"I do know i go to UK with work (or did) and im forever known as a P**i which is most likely a derogatory term for Pakistanis"

Essentially context matters. I don't know the OP's heritage, and without knowing the demographics of this forum I would say the average poster here is a white, middle-aged male who hates the rags, so assuming this holds (and correct me if I'm wrong) I can understand why he wouldn't feel upset by it (again it doesn't make it right either). Likewise I can also see how in the example where the roles are somewhat reversed for it to be deemed by the foreign visitor to be completely unacceptable owing to the considerable historical context at play here.

Further I can see why Webo (Cameroonian) and Ba (Senegalese) might not take kindly to a white European using the description that he did given the colonial past in both those countries, and their experiences as African diaspora players plying their trade across the world.

Again. Nowhere did I imply that what the OP was called was acceptable.

Nowhere did I make a judgment either for or against the Chinese. All I was asking the OP to consider was whilst he might be able to brush a slur off easily, others based on their own context may not. One position doesn't invalidate the other.

I didn't advocate at any point that it's fine for any people to use slurs and I think you may actually be bolstering my point.

The OP coming from (what I assume - again correct me if I'm wrong) a ex-imperialist country like England to Asia still carries status, or privileges as you described, to this day. As you've identified this privileged treatment conferred on him may be the reason why he feels thick skinned enough and can brush off some of those derogatory comments.

Someone from those Asian countries, who if they come to England and who may not have those same privileges might find derogatory comments much less palatable though. That's the point I was making.

And I agree that racism doesn't solely rely on colonial history to fester (there's minority groups that are scapegoated and persecuted in every country on the planet whether they be ex-colonial powers or not) yet it's also important to not completely divorce it from the historical context either.
What an absolute crock of shit.
 
Nowhere did I suggest that two wrongs make a right. Please don't turn this into a strawman. I was simply asking the OP to consider the historical context. He in his own right and as he is entitled to, brushed off those comments made in his direction. However, hypothetically if we were to tweak what he said slightly and reverse the roles (i.e. someone from Asia visiting the UK), it is easy to outline something which is not wholesome at all.

"I do know i go to UK with work (or did) and im forever known as a P**i which is most likely a derogatory term for Pakistanis"

Essentially context matters. I don't know the OP's heritage, and without knowing the demographics of this forum I would say the average poster here is a white, middle-aged male who hates the rags, so assuming this holds (and correct me if I'm wrong) I can understand why he wouldn't feel upset by it (again it doesn't make it right either). Likewise I can also see how in the example where the roles are somewhat reversed for it to be deemed by the foreign visitor to be completely unacceptable owing to the considerable historical context at play here.

Further I can see why Webo (Cameroonian) and Ba (Senegalese) might not take kindly to a white European using the description that he did given the colonial past in both those countries, and their experiences as African diaspora players plying their trade across the world.

Again. Nowhere did I imply that what the OP was called was acceptable.

Nowhere did I make a judgment either for or against the Chinese. All I was asking the OP to consider was whilst he might be able to brush a slur off easily, others based on their own context may not. One position doesn't invalidate the other.

I didn't advocate at any point that it's fine for any people to use slurs and I think you may actually be bolstering my point.

The OP coming from (what I assume - again correct me if I'm wrong) a ex-imperialist country like England to Asia still carries status, or privileges as you described, to this day. As you've identified this privileged treatment conferred on him may be the reason why he feels thick skinned enough and can brush off some of those derogatory comments.

Someone from those Asian countries, who if they come to England and who may not have those same privileges might find derogatory comments much less palatable though. That's the point I was making.

And I agree that racism doesn't solely rely on colonial history to fester (there's minority groups that are scapegoated and persecuted in every country on the planet whether they be ex-colonial powers or not) yet it's also important to not completely divorce it from the historical context either.
I totally understand you're asking for "consideration of the historical context - they've been invaded by white men so we need to bear that in mind"..... But, because of that you're saying it is ok for me to be called a gammon or a longpig or white-privileged - Actual racial profiling.

So I am saying how is that fair? Where's the equality in that? For me to be referred to as a gammon but I can not use the word Black to describe someone else? It makes me feel it's unfair. tbh I thiknk it pushed some people further towards being racist

It's key to all that racial harmony bollocks that the rules are the same for all sides, absolutely key. And it totally trumps historical context arguments.
 
Nobody alive today can remember British colonialism, nobody alive today has been directly negatively affected by it (I’m using the word directly carefully there). Nobody alive today is guilty of doing it either.

Demba Ba has benefited greatly from European culture. He became a millionaire because of it. He became a hero to all when he scored past Liverpool for Chelsea too.

Does that give anyone the right to be racist to him? Absolutely not.

It doesn’t give him the right to play a victim card about European colonialism though, when he’s not experienced it. (Not that he’s doing that at all I’m pointing out why the above poster on this thread is wrong).

We really need to get back to the individual and judging these things on what specific people have experienced and what specific people have done.

I am no more guilty for the British Empire than Ba is for Africans enslaving and committing genocide against other Africans.

There seems to be a self hatred among some, about what their country has done in the past and this thing called “white guilt”. It’s what is fuelling, alongside virtue signalling, the BLM movement in the UK and the hysteria that goes with it. It’s not your fault, you weren’t alive, move on and start treating people as individuals and with dignity.
 
Nobody alive today can remember British colonialism, nobody alive today has been directly negatively affected by it (I’m using the word directly carefully there). Nobody alive today is guilty of doing it either.

Demba Ba has benefited greatly from European culture. He became a millionaire because of it. He became a hero to all when he scored past Liverpool for Chelsea too.

Does that give anyone the right to be racist to him? Absolutely not.

It doesn’t give him the right to play a victim card about European colonialism though, when he’s not experienced it. (Not that he’s doing that at all I’m pointing out why the above poster on this thread is wrong).

We really need to get back to the individual and judging these things on what specific people have experienced and what specific people have done.

I am no more guilty for the British Empire than Ba is for Africans enslaving and committing genocide against other Africans.

There seems to be a self hatred among some, about what their country has done in the past and this thing called “white guilt”. It’s what is fuelling, alongside virtue signalling, the BLM movement in the UK and the hysteria that goes with it. It’s not your fault, you weren’t alive, move on and start treating people as individuals and with dignity.
Extremely well put my friend & thanks for saving me the job :)

I wonder if Scandinavians still harbour any guilt for the Viking invasions? Or perhaps Italians for the Roman invasions etc etc?

I know I feel downtrodden & oppressed by these people & they get far too easy a ride in the UK with all of their privileges when they visit the UK. And to top it off......what did the Romans ever do for us?

@billymumphrey Racism has fuck all to do with colonial history. Plus Ban-Jani is correct in the fact that nobody alive today can remember or had anything to do with colonisation of the British Empire, so there really is no need to be a colonial apologist

 
Nobody alive today can remember British colonialism, nobody alive today has been directly negatively affected by it (I’m using the word directly carefully there). Nobody alive today is guilty of doing it either.

Demba Ba has benefited greatly from European culture. He became a millionaire because of it. He became a hero to all when he scored past Liverpool for Chelsea too.

Does that give anyone the right to be racist to him? Absolutely not.

It doesn’t give him the right to play a victim card about European colonialism though, when he’s not experienced it. (Not that he’s doing that at all I’m pointing out why the above poster on this thread is wrong).

We really need to get back to the individual and judging these things on what specific people have experienced and what specific people have done.

I am no more guilty for the British Empire than Ba is for Africans enslaving and committing genocide against other Africans.

There seems to be a self hatred among some, about what their country has done in the past and this thing called “white guilt”. It’s what is fuelling, alongside virtue signalling, the BLM movement in the UK and the hysteria that goes with it. It’s not your fault, you weren’t alive, move on and start treating people as individuals and with dignity.
Brilliant post,absolutely on the money.For some,eradicating racism and gaining equality will not be enough.
 
I think this whole episode, be it justified or over reaction is a reflection on how shit the football authorities across Europe have dealt with racism. Players now feel they have to make a stand and act on mass. Better governance and faith in the authorities to act are what have been missing. Perhaps if players felt confident in things being handled through proper channels they would feel less inclined to take matters into their own hands. As it stands, rightly or wrongly, I am glad they took a stand. Sets a precedent which may wake up the powers that be.
 
I think this whole episode, be it justified or over reaction is a reflection on how shit the football authorities across Europe have dealt with racism. Players now feel they have to make a stand and act on mass. Better governance and faith in the authorities to act are what have been missing. Perhaps if players felt confident in things being handled through proper channels they would feel less inclined to take matters into their own hands. As it stands, rightly or wrongly, I am glad they took a stand. Sets a precedent which may wake up the powers that be.
I still laugh (if you didn’t you’d cry) when they fined us more for being late out onto the pitch than Porto for their fans racially abusing our players.

Then there’s the whole CSKA Moscow farce, which, even though I didn’t have a ticket nor was planning on going, haven’t forgiven them for.

That said, taking a stand when it’s not needed dilutes how seriously people will take stands in future. I am not saying it wasn’t needed in this case, we’ll have to wait and see, I just don’t think accusations of racism should ever be made that strongly until the evidence is there.
 

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