PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
bit rich that a poster who racially abused one of our own players says they "detest using colour as a reference" when they mocked and abused one of our own because of their skin colour.
PSG vs Istanbul Basaksehir suspended after 4th official accused of racism
- Thread starter roy.or.r
- Start date
I worked in HK/China/Taiwan since 1990. Gweilo was used all the time towards me. I never got upset, neither did any colleagues. The derogatory connotations of the word have long been diluted. To prove this, there is even a beer in HK called Gweilo, because it’s a ‘pale’ ale. and it’s you guessed it, marketed and brewed by Gweilos....Both Jonh Barnes and Micah seem to think its not racist to describe a person by their colour! JB says they are asking people to call them “Black” Im a white guy so to be honest i just dont know what to think anymore.
John Barnes defends fourth official who called Istanbul coach 'the black one'
JOHN BARNES has defended the fourth official who allegedly referred to Istanbul Basaksehir’s assistant coach as ‘the black one’, insisting it was NOT racist. Romanian official Seb…www.google.com
I do know i go to China/Asia with work (or did) and im forever known as “Gweilo” aka Ghostly Man which is most likely a derogatory term for Westerners. I dont get upset by it, but guess some might!
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Bigga
Well-Known Member
I dunno, pick out something I'm wearing? Pick out I've a shaved head? Pick out where I am? Shout out my name?
If someone doesn't want to move past the racial barrier, they won't.
It's that simple, really.
I probably would do mate first of all but if there’s someone else with a shaved head or similar outfit, or if it’s a big crowd then I’d then go to physical attributes so we’re not taking forever
Whether it’d be the “ginger bloke” or “blonde hair” or “white guy” if the rest near him are black or vice versa.
I do tend to emphasise how I say it in a friendly tone.
“black dude” or “fella” is a much friendlier tone than saying “the black one”, which I wouldn’t say and I think sounds more negative in the English language.
My view is we should be colourblind so I agree with avoiding doing this if we can but sometimes it just makes life easier when pointing someone out (you have to with the police for example) and I don’t think it’s racist if you’re doing it in a friendly way.
But yeah, if there was just a long haired guy next to you, I would say shaved head over picking skin colour.
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IH8MUFC
Guest
If the ref said Asain guy or white guy I doubt that he would be considered as a racist.
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Deleted member 77198
Guest
You describe people from their most recognisable features compared to other people they’re with. Whether that be a hat, their height, their skin colour, their hair colour, or a striking colour of a coat. Whichever is easiest to decipher who it is.
If five guys were sat together, four were black, one was white, all had dark brown hair and varying degrees of stubble, all about 6foot tall... and someone was trying to point out the white guy to me, I wouldn’t expect him to say “third in from the left, closest to the pillar, with the blue eyes, about the third longest beard and the red boots on”.
If they said that to me, I’d reply “fuck me mate, you mean the fucking white bloke? Stop being so weird!”
But then when trying to point out one of the four black guys in my example, I wouldn’t expect them to use skin colour. Because the skin colour isn’t the most obvious feature that’s different from each other with the four black guys, and if they did I’d say “well, no shit pal, four out of five of them sat there are black, be more specific you daft fucker!”
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I was quite interested to see the response to this, and i admit i do find it intriguing.
Why is that, why would you consider that particular description in that particular context, even as the first choice (rather than only in the event that there are other tall, bald or whetever) biased or in any way prejudicial? Genuine question, and completely putting aside the psg comparison which is probably different instance with a different context.
I personally would go as far as to argue that consciously avoiding describing someone by their skin colour, if that is the obvious easy distinguishing item, is potentially in itself biased, as you are in full awareness highlighting a difference that just has no need of being highlighted.
To me, skin colour should be no different to hair colour, colour of your jacket, glasses, height whatever. Surely it is totally innocent not to focus on skin colour over any other defining characteristic.
And i would consider myself reasonably woke btw, so it is an honest and well intended point, rather than any sort of dismissive denial.
He'd have to playing a tarot card for that to happen.
Hi,
I have just registered and this is my first post on this forum; considering what has happened in the last few days I caught myself trying to better understand how and why is this happening ; trying to cover a broader area I have stumbled upon this discussion.
First of all I really appreciate the level of consideration and moderation of your discussions here; very informative and also level-headed.
I am from Romania and I will try to give a little bit of insight and also a personal view on the matter.
First of all I am against racism and in the same time I am against hypocrisy, bullying, aggressiveness; in this particular case I agree that the ref should have been more careful to the context in which he was but I can also understand that trying to identify a person dressed like all the others, with a balaclava on his head, with no number or any other particular trait - he has used "negru" as a mean of quick identification. Most of you here agree with that I guess. I am also quite sure that many other refs are (sometimes) having conversations between them in their mother language ; its the fastest convenient way in a fast paced sport.
In the same time we all know that on the whole planet each nation , each language has its own demeaning/derogatory words/terms regarding neighbours, nations, other races etc.
Regarding the racism allegations : the black word in romanian is "negru" ; that has nothing to do with racism or demeaning notion.
If you intend to be mean, racist, demeaning towards a person with a darker skin colour you say "cioara" which means crow in romanian, you may say "negrotei" which is the equivalent of "******" , you even may say "tigan" which translates to gypsy; as far as I understood the refs themselves have been called gypsies since 2nd minute of the match from the turkish bench ; thats the reason of red card for coach Pierre Webo.
So there is not a single moment in which the 4th ref has had any intention of saying something even near to racism.
It is clear that Pierre Webo and Demba Ba overreacted as they thought they heard "negro" ; we can understand that. But from misunderstanding a word to allegations of racism thats a very long way in a civilised world; instead, they behave in an aggresive manner (since the beginning of the match even), they are not considering the arguments, they are not considering the language of others, they instantly go to false accusations.
I think we as a society are dealing with a problem where while trying to solve the racism problem we are creating a "problack racism" one; some are oversensitive, there is an obssesion related to the black race ; we all see press titles such "The first black appointed as X" "The first black which whatever" - why the need to emphasize the black race in these cases? Some black people are relaxed and they have no problem with being called black; other are behaving as we saw; then it is clear that we as a society are having some big issue generated by this antiracism taken to obsessive levels.
Let me now give you some insight towards Demba Ba and his approach to racism :
"Bienvenue en occident , la où le blanc se croit tellement supérieur que racisme et débilité deviennent banalité. TIME TO RISE" - Demba Ba tweet on 2 Apr 2020
Is that "le blanc" racism? What do you think?
Also you can try to understand the discussion here even if it is in french :
rmc.bfmtv.com
This situation has created a precedent where everyone could be falsely accused of being racist, being bullied, acted aggressive upon just because some nervous aggressive sensitive hypocrite feels bad about his natural skin tone.
Also it has created a precedent where the refs have no authority on the field and the players can do and say anything ; they can call refs names and bully them, be aggressive towards them and even get revoked the red card given; maybe in the future the coaches have to have numbers on their clothes, everyone on the field should be easily identified; more so everything that happens on the bench should be recorded; maybe then they will behave and act like sportsmen not like a bunch of sensitive hypocrite snowflakes.
"Allez le bleus?"
I have just registered and this is my first post on this forum; considering what has happened in the last few days I caught myself trying to better understand how and why is this happening ; trying to cover a broader area I have stumbled upon this discussion.
First of all I really appreciate the level of consideration and moderation of your discussions here; very informative and also level-headed.
I am from Romania and I will try to give a little bit of insight and also a personal view on the matter.
First of all I am against racism and in the same time I am against hypocrisy, bullying, aggressiveness; in this particular case I agree that the ref should have been more careful to the context in which he was but I can also understand that trying to identify a person dressed like all the others, with a balaclava on his head, with no number or any other particular trait - he has used "negru" as a mean of quick identification. Most of you here agree with that I guess. I am also quite sure that many other refs are (sometimes) having conversations between them in their mother language ; its the fastest convenient way in a fast paced sport.
In the same time we all know that on the whole planet each nation , each language has its own demeaning/derogatory words/terms regarding neighbours, nations, other races etc.
Regarding the racism allegations : the black word in romanian is "negru" ; that has nothing to do with racism or demeaning notion.
If you intend to be mean, racist, demeaning towards a person with a darker skin colour you say "cioara" which means crow in romanian, you may say "negrotei" which is the equivalent of "******" , you even may say "tigan" which translates to gypsy; as far as I understood the refs themselves have been called gypsies since 2nd minute of the match from the turkish bench ; thats the reason of red card for coach Pierre Webo.
So there is not a single moment in which the 4th ref has had any intention of saying something even near to racism.
It is clear that Pierre Webo and Demba Ba overreacted as they thought they heard "negro" ; we can understand that. But from misunderstanding a word to allegations of racism thats a very long way in a civilised world; instead, they behave in an aggresive manner (since the beginning of the match even), they are not considering the arguments, they are not considering the language of others, they instantly go to false accusations.
I think we as a society are dealing with a problem where while trying to solve the racism problem we are creating a "problack racism" one; some are oversensitive, there is an obssesion related to the black race ; we all see press titles such "The first black appointed as X" "The first black which whatever" - why the need to emphasize the black race in these cases? Some black people are relaxed and they have no problem with being called black; other are behaving as we saw; then it is clear that we as a society are having some big issue generated by this antiracism taken to obsessive levels.
Let me now give you some insight towards Demba Ba and his approach to racism :
"Bienvenue en occident , la où le blanc se croit tellement supérieur que racisme et débilité deviennent banalité. TIME TO RISE" - Demba Ba tweet on 2 Apr 2020
Is that "le blanc" racism? What do you think?
Also you can try to understand the discussion here even if it is in french :
PSG - Basaksehir : « Désigner un homme par sa couleur n’est pas raciste ! » Gilles-William Goldnadel
VIDÉO - Hier, le PSG et le Basaksehir ont repris le jeu à la suite à l'incident survenu mardi dernier. Les 22 acteurs ont posé un genou à terre pour protester contre le racisme. Selon l'avocat des GG, les propos de l'arbitre n'avaient rien de raciste...
This situation has created a precedent where everyone could be falsely accused of being racist, being bullied, acted aggressive upon just because some nervous aggressive sensitive hypocrite feels bad about his natural skin tone.
Also it has created a precedent where the refs have no authority on the field and the players can do and say anything ; they can call refs names and bully them, be aggressive towards them and even get revoked the red card given; maybe in the future the coaches have to have numbers on their clothes, everyone on the field should be easily identified; more so everything that happens on the bench should be recorded; maybe then they will behave and act like sportsmen not like a bunch of sensitive hypocrite snowflakes.
"Allez le bleus?"
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