PSG vs Istanbul Basaksehir suspended after 4th official accused of racism

[Maly]

I think in general there’s a lot of confusion as to what constitutes racism. For some racism is just the n word or calling someone a monkey.

It runs so much deeper than that though. It’s about how the media portray different races in general, subconscious bias that leads to different races being stopped more by the police or being more likely to be turned down for an important job role.

Believe it or not a lot of people think a lot of the issues in the previous paragraph don’t happen, or if they do, they aren’t racism. As I mentioned, these people only see clear racial abuse as an issue and fail to see that the other elements are often even more painful.

Yeah, calling someone a name can be offence and hurtful but it’s the other stuff that dents reputations and leads to lasting damage.

It does indeed run much deeper. Which is one of the reasons I would rather racists be openly racist with their comments than not. Racist actions such as you've mentioned are far more damaging than name calling. I'm not a huge fan of positive discrimination as I think it should be whoever is right for the job. However, unfortunately, I believe it's still a necessity in the UK, which is pretty sad really in 2020.

 

[TheThirdDeano]

Wow, that's certainly news to me but goes to show that racism has nothing to do with colonisation. Are you considering staying there & putting up with it or likely to move elsewhere?

Oh I've been here about 5 years now, I speak the language, have an apartment with my Long term partner so not much to do at the present other than get on with it and push back when I can.

But I remember being sat in the realtor's office listening to him saying "He's a foreigner, is that okay?" - That's verbatim(albeit translated) because we'd been turned down for another place because I'm not Japanese, even the realtor himself was trying to only suggest places he knew were "Gaijin" friendly, a concept they're absolutely fine with.


Racism is a huge problem around the world and 100% not limited to Europe and America.

 

[Maly]

@Hart of the Matter @Ban-jani Think you've both raised some excellent points there chaps

 

[VOOMER]

It does indeed run much deeper. Which is one of the reasons I would rather racists be openly racist with their comments than not. Racist actions such as you've mentioned are far more damaging than name calling. I'm not a huge fan of positive discrimination as I think it should be whoever is right for the job. However, unfortunately, I believe it's still a necessity in the UK, which is pretty sad really in 2020.

There is nothing positive about discrimination. It takes a lot longer than a 100 years to naturally assimilate into a new culture. It terms of leadership, not a chance that things will change, as they truly hate the average citizen.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

UEFA haven’t no, you’re correct but two wrongs don’t make a right.

It may not be a good thing when people become tired of false accusations and lives are ruined through reputations damage, though.

The 4th official with mental health issues takes his own life (please God I think we all hope he doesn’t) or if he loses his job as a scapegoat and the cage rattling isn’t justified.

I actually think the rarified and bluetouch paper stuff at the moment is indicative of all our uncertainty and some needed introspection on all peoples part. It is needed because nothing was changing. I see it as a pendulum rather than a downward spiral.
As for individuals caught up in the midst of all this then obviously no one likes to see a sacrificial lamb based on knee jerk. We, you, me included seem to live in a binary world at the moment. No room for error (unless you are part of the elite)or learning.
All parties want to have their pound of flesh. Wrongly in most instances (unless it's Dominic Scummings).
The precedent I see being set is not on the nuances of the actual event. That can be sorted later, hopefully with opportunities to calmly reflect . But the ability of people/players to act without fear of reprisal is now established. The onus is now squarely with the club's and authorities. Just where it should have been all along.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

And I agree that racism doesn't solely rely on colonial history to fester (there's minority groups that are scapegoated and persecuted in every country on the planet whether they be ex-colonial powers or not) yet it's also important to not completely divorce it from the historical context either.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think that's a context that really contributes to Ba's objection to the use of "the black man" to describe a member of his team. If you were to look for a more likely possible context for the upset, it would perhaps be the sort of thing that has led to the whole BLM thing in the first place, that being that black men are so frequently identified as "a black man" with little or no other descriptive terms, and that results in a huge number of them constantly being stopped by police (even ones as high profile as Ba).

I remembered a while ago in America when a couple were given a receipt that had "black ppl" on the top to identify them (by a black waiter, incidentally) so I thought I'd have a look at Twitter. It does seem pretty universal amongst black people on Twitter that it was out of order, (but not evidence that the bloke was racist). The main argument seems to be one of othering people, basically that you would never write "white ppl" in the same way. I've not found a well-articulated argument either way though to be honest (not surprising on Twitter).

 

[Ban-jani]

I actually think the rarified and bluetouch paper stuff at the moment is indicative of all our uncertainty and some needed introspection on all peoples part. It is needed because nothing was changing. I see it as a pendulum rather than a downward spiral.
As for individuals caught up in the midst of all this then obviously no one likes to see a sacrificial lamb based on knee jerk. We, you, me included seem to live in a binary world at the moment. No room for error (unless you are part of the elite)or learning.
All parties want to have their pound of flesh. Wrongly in most instances (unless it's Dominic Scummings).
The precedent I see being set is not on the nuances of the actual event. That can be sorted later, hopefully with opportunities to calmly reflect . But the ability of people/players to act without fear of reprisal is now established. The onus is now squarely with the club's and authorities. Just where it should have been all along.

I disagree with your general premise when it comes to society, there is real consequences for discrimination and change over my lifetime has been pretty vast but I do agree when it comes to football, the authorities have been pathetic.

 

[nixmith2]

It runs so much deeper than that though. It’s about how the media portray different races in general, subconscious bias that leads to different races being stopped more by the police or being more likely to be turned down for an important job role.

There is a counter-argument to this though. You mention stop and search, but what about the grooming gangs in various northern towns that got away with their despicable activities for longer than they should, due to the Police (and other agencies) not wanting to be seen to be racist?

What about if an employer picks a BAME candidate over a white person, so their company has a more diverse staff, when in fact the white person may have been the better candidate?

Recently, a black comedian was a last minute sub on a Radio 4 News Quiz programme because the BBC realised that its original line-up (4 white guys) was not diverse enough.

Is that not just political correctness gone mad? Think about it from the guy who got sidelineds point of view - it might have been a life changing/career changing opportunity for him (if he'd been funny on the show) but he was denied the chance & for this reason!!!!

 

[Ban-jani]

There is a counter-argument to this though. You mention stop and search, but what about the grooming gangs in various northern towns that got away with their despicable activities for longer than they should, due to the Police (and other agencies) not wanting to be seen to be racist?

What about if an employer picks a BAME candidate over a white person, so their company has a more diverse staff, when in fact the white person may have been the better candidate?

Recently, a black comedian was a last minute sub on a Radio 4 News Quiz programme because the BBC realised that its original line-up (4 white guys) was not diverse enough.

Is that not just political correctness gone mad? Think about it from the guy who got sidelineds point of view - it might have been a life changing/career changing opportunity for him (if he'd been funny on the show) but he was denied the chance & for this reason!!!!

It’s worth noting that during the horrendous 2018 knife crime epidemic in London, many were blaming the authorities for not doing more.

It’s like the police cannot win with some.

 

[nixmith2]

It’s worth noting that during the horrendous 2018 knife crime epidemic in London, many were blaming the authorities for not doing more.

It’s like the police cannot win with some.

Yes I agree.

I have a specific interest in this, my Dad is a retired Policeman. He is an old man now, but back in the early 80s I remember him setting out to Police the Toxteth riots in just a basic uniform and a truncheon - none of the modern protective gear the police have these days. He got stuck in! and has told me it was pretty scary.

He was apoplectic with anger in the summer as these modern police (all wearing stab vests etc.) just stood aside as #BLM protesters did their thing, without intervention.

Interestingly, I read yesterday that finally four people have been charged with criminal damage after the toppling of a statue of the slave trader Edward Colston in Bristol in June. But would it not to have been cheaper and better to have just arrested them at the time?