Public sector pay rise

[roypaulknewmyfather]

Pay rises don’t lead to increased inflation, profiteering does. The money being made by private companies out of the NHS is fantastic. £20bn has gone to them this year alone, add the amounts spaffed on Covid solution and add the recruitment problems and the answer is clear. What little funding there is is having to be spent in areas that are wasteful (agency staff, inadequate systems bought because they were cheap not necessarily good etc). The American investment company that now runs 95% of GP services in the country was called “profit led” by The Daily Mail for goodness sake, for that disgusting rag to use that terminology it must be horrendous. Take all of that private money and give the key workers a living wage. Other Public Sector employees deserve the same treatment.

 

[law74]

But..as I keep saying the money is not there to provide double digit pay rises

And I have explained at least twice that it is.

 

[halfmist]

It comes from borrowing.

So your saying current pay rises should be paid for by borrowing that then has to be paid back by future generations who may not have even been born yet. Madness.

 

[halfmist]

Pay rises don’t lead to increased inflation, profiteering does. The money being made by private companies out of the NHS is fantastic. £20bn has gone to them this year alone, add the amounts spaffed on Covid solution and add the recruitment problems and the answer is clear. What little funding there is is having to be spent in areas that are wasteful (agency staff, inadequate systems bought because they were cheap not necessarily good etc). The American investment company that now runs 95% of GP services in the country was called “profit led” by The Daily Mail for goodness sake, for that disgusting rag to use that terminology it must be horrendous. Take all of that private money and give the key workers a living wage. Other Public Sector employees deserve the same treatment.

How do you “ take all of that private money” in the real world.
I can’t verify your figures but are you seriously suggesting it is sat in bank accounts waiting for the Government to come and collect it.

 

[halfmist]

They could afford to give the NHS staff a payrise if they stopped the NHS from pissing money up the wall.

I've got 14 years service in, and the money I see wasted on a daily basis is absolutely sickening.

£400 taxi journeys, £millions wasted on a system that's being ripped out after less that 12 months. Having to get trades in on agency because the pay is so shit for the in house ones in comparison they can't recruit, but then paying the agency staff who know fuck all about the hospital/layout £5-10ph more than your own lads.

For the first time in my 14 year career in the NHS, I'm looking at getting out. I can't take it anymore. It's not just the pay though but that's another argument....


Don't ever let anybody tell you the NHS is under funded, far from it!

One retired nurse I know, went back to help out with vaccinations. Because she hadn’t renewed her nurses subscription she was paid £10.50 per hour.
She was working along side other retired nurses who had kept up their subscription and they were getting £32 per hour for doing exactly the same work

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

So your saying current pay rises should be paid for by borrowing that then has to be paid back by future generations who may not have even been born yet. Madness.

It's not 'borrowing' in the sense than a private individual takes on debt that has to be repaid though. With currencies like sterling, dollars, yen, etc, the government will never go bust. It simply repays any due debt with newly issued debt. Without the government 'printing money' (i.e. QE) we'd have been in an absolute fucking mess since 2008. Interest rates are at a historic low so the cost of borrowing is minimal.

The main problem is if you hit a sustained period of high inflation and interest rates rise significantly. Then borrowing costs also rise.

Its also a well-established and quantifiably proven fact that introducing money into the public sector has a multiplier effect. Every £ introduced is effectively worth £1.70 once it's gone through the economy.

 

[law74]

It's not 'borrowing' in the sense than a private individual takes on debt that has to be repaid though. With currencies like sterling, dollars, yen, etc, the government will never go bust. It simply repays any due debt with newly issued debt. Without the government 'printing money' (i.e. QE) we'd have been in an absolute fucking mess since 2008. Interest rates are at a historic low so the cost of borrowing is minimal.

The main problem is if you hit a sustained period of high inflation and interest rates rise significantly. Then borrowing costs also rise.

Its also a well-established and quantifiably proven fact that introducing money into the public sector has a multiplier effect. Every £ introduced is effectively worth £1.70 once it's gone through the economy.

I have been explaining this to halfpist but he doesn't want to listen (though it was £1.50 for each £ extra in wages I read, though that was a number of years ago)

 

[roypaulknewmyfather]

How do you “ take all of that private money” in the real world.
I can’t verify your figures but are you seriously suggesting it is sat in bank accounts waiting for the Government to come and collect it.

No. I think you can work it out if you try.

 

[halfmist]

It's not 'borrowing' in the sense than a private individual takes on debt that has to be repaid though. With currencies like sterling, dollars, yen, etc, the government will never go bust. It simply repays any due debt with newly issued debt. Without the government 'printing money' (i.e. QE) we'd have been in an absolute fucking mess since 2008. Interest rates are at a historic low so the cost of borrowing is minimal.

The main problem is if you hit a sustained period of high inflation and interest rates rise significantly. Then borrowing costs also rise.

Its also a well-established and quantifiably proven fact that introducing money into the public sector has a multiplier effect. Every £ introduced is effectively worth £1.70 once it's gone through the economy.

Interesting economic theory.
Debt is debt. Issuing new debt to pay off old debt will not make the situation any better.
Also the debt has to be serviced.
The Government is having to pay massive interest costs from current income at the moment, without additional borrowing.
I have never heard of the multiplier effect that £1 becomes £1.7 in the public sector, that’s a new one on me.
If the Government borrows to finance current wages of course it will be inflationary.
There is also a danger of an increase in imports if U.K. cannot satisfy additional demand and the resulting effect that has on the pound.

 

[halfmist]

No. I think you can work it out if you try.

Nope sorry, don’t know if a) it exists b) how to quantify it and c)how to legally get their hands on it to pay this years pay rises.
Any Company accused of tax evasion is likely to fight it through the Courts starting with the Country its held in
It would go on for years.