Question Time

[somapop]

No she works for the IEA - a shady "think tank" that works out of Tufton Street who nobody knows who funds them but funnily enough they and she in particular pushes anti state provided medicare - ie the NHS - every time she is on the BBC - which is both disgraceful and far too many times

I've seen her pop up on things before.

I actually thought it was the other woman who was IEA (as she was hashing up a Brexit line) but turns out she's a Tory minister I'd never heard of.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I've seen her pop up on things before.

I actually thought it was the other woman who was IEA (as she was hashing up a Brexit line) but turns out she's a Tory minister I'd never heard of.

The IEA try not to talk about Brexit these days - nor Truss, nor Kwarteng, nor the mini budget nor anything they were behind because it always went tits up because its all right wing bullshit and like all right wingers they don't want to own anything

 

[somapop]

The IEA try not to talk about Brexit these days - nor Truss, nor Kwarteng, nor the mini budget nor anything they were behind because it always went tits up because its all right wing bullshit and like all right wingers they don't want to own anything

Some of these are very good at brushing stuff off but it's increasingly difficult when 'stuff' has grown rather corpulent (like elephant sized corpulent)....

 

[NPBlue]

I must admit to being surprised that even Bruce dare discuss the B word after it being completely off the agenda by the pro right media for many months ! Even more surprised by the audience reaction and criticism of brexit in a Tory area too. As for Ashworth and Labour they need to know that there are many, like me, who won't vote for them whilst they continue this pro brexit support agenda. Not even prepared to comment on the negative impact. Appalling and as bad as the Tories in a way !

It's time for us to forget who won and lost after the referendum, and accept the damage it is causing. We can't run and hide from that decision, because the longer we collectively refuse to acknowledge it was a disaster for our economy, our living standards will continue to fall.

Everything about the brexit campaign was nothing short of bullshit, and the leave suppoting voters claiming they knew what they were voting for were hoodwinked into a decision that won't benefit them in the long term.

One of the positives our membership of the EU had, and I had been saying it for years, was it protected all of us from the extreme policies right wing governments wanted to impose on us, and it isn't a surprise it was a tory government that was at the forefront of backing the leave campaign.

They hated the EU because it prevented them from imposing their free market crap on us, and now we are out, they aren't wasting much time in having their 'bonfire' of EU rules that have protected our rights for years.

It's not clear at the moment if that bonfire will happen, as the implications for UK businesses are too costly to be realistic, but other bills are passing through the House of Commons that couldn't have happened while we were still members of the EU.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

I voted for brexit, and argued for it on here occasionally, as well as elsewhere. I still, instinctively, believe this country should be fully independent of both the EU or indeed any other major political grouping of nations. I am unapologetic for this belief, and I don’t say that flippantly, or to be confrontational.

What I do apologise for is that I should never have voted for Brexit with a govt like we had in 2016, and still have today. Maybe it (Brexit ) can only ever be a pipe dream, and being so far aligned with the EU as we were, makes it impossible to have a Brexit that wouldn’t be damaging in the short, medium, and possibly even the longer, term.

I believed, as naive as it sounds today, that if we left there would be a change in govt within a year or two as Brexit was always going to tear the tories apart, and we would end up with a Corbyn govt which would be a closer version of socialist and improve the country, free to make its own rules etc etc etc. I actually believed (and hoped for) the chance to go back to the sort of country we had in the 1970s in a political sense, where we had a clear choice between govts that were very different in philosophy, and offered two different choices for the country and had to answer for their decisions without using the EU as a body to blame or hide behind.

We all know that didn’t happen and quite probably couldn’t ever have happened.

I don’t consider myself thick , or xenophobic in the slightest. I do now consider myself extremely naive however. I don’t think I was conned. I think I failed to appreciate the ramifications of Brexit turning out the way they have. That’s on me. I didn’t fail to do so because of any billboards, buses, or speeches from frothing, vile, racists. I failed to see the ramifications because I believed, stupidly with hindsight, that our politicians would work hard to make Brexit work.

They haven’t of course, and as embarrassing as it is to admit, that they’ve had the chance to royally fuck things up is partly on me and my vote.

I’m passionately, unapologetically, keen to see this country return to being a fairer, kinder, and more equal one.
I thought Brexit would be the first of a great many necessary steps on that journey. I was wrong unfortunately.

I don’t say this as someone who has had a damascene conversion and now supports the idea of the EU. I haven’t and I don’t. I say it as someone who has seen the last few years tear people apart and degrade our country and her international standing, never mind the economy. Perhaps for several generations. I have to take my share of the responsibility for that.
I do however only speak for myself. I don’t, can’t, and wouldn’t even if I could, speak for anyone else who voted for Brexit.

 

[Chris in London]

I voted for brexit, and argued for it on here occasionally, as well as elsewhere. I still, instinctively, believe this country should be fully independent of both the EU or indeed any other major political grouping of nations.

Presumably for the same reason you also advocate U.K. withdrawal from NATO, the United Nations, the World Health Organisatio, the World Trade Association, etc?

You don’t, because you aren’t stupid. Yet you must be able to understand that in a world in which global interaction and interdependence is a fact of life, issues like defence, health, trade, medicine, economics etc all have political angles. To say we shouldn’t be involved in an international political grouping is to say we shouldn’t be involved in an international grouping.

Even FIFA is a political grouping.

To identify the EU alone as the grouping you wanted to leave because it alone is “political” is a sad reminder of how dishonest the Vote Leave campaign was.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Presumably for the same reason you also advocate U.K. withdrawal from NATO, the United Nations, the World Health Organisatio, the World Trade Association, etc?

You don’t, because you aren’t stupid. Yet you must be able to understand that in a world in which global interaction and interdependence is a fact of life, issues like defence, health, trade, medicine, economics etc all have political angles. To say we shouldn’t be involved in an international political grouping is to say we shouldn’t be involved in an international grouping.

Even FIFA is a political grouping.

To identify the EU alone as the grouping you wanted to leave because it alone is “political” is a sad reminder of how dishonest the Vote Leave campaign was.

Voting leave was a very selfish thing to do ino.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I still, instinctively, believe this country should be fully independent of both the EU or indeed any other major political grouping of nations

There is no country on this planet that fulfils this ambition of yours. If it was so advantageous did it not occur to you why none of the big boys did it? I mean if the largest economy in the world is in trade bloc's - defence organisations and so on if they could fare even better by standing completely alone they would have done it decades ago

 

[Vic]

I voted for brexit, and argued for it on here occasionally, as well as elsewhere. I still, instinctively, believe this country should be fully independent of both the EU or indeed any other major political grouping of nations. I am unapologetic for this belief, and I don’t say that flippantly, or to be confrontational.

What I do apologise for is that I should never have voted for Brexit with a govt like we had in 2016, and still have today. Maybe it (Brexit ) can only ever be a pipe dream, and being so far aligned with the EU as we were, makes it impossible to have a Brexit that wouldn’t be damaging in the short, medium, and possibly even the longer, term.

I believed, as naive as it sounds today, that if we left there would be a change in govt within a year or two as Brexit was always going to tear the tories apart, and we would end up with a Corbyn govt which would be a closer version of socialist and improve the country, free to make its own rules etc etc etc. I actually believed (and hoped for) the chance to go back to the sort of country we had in the 1970s in a political sense, where we had a clear choice between govts that were very different in philosophy, and offered two different choices for the country and had to answer for their decisions without using the EU as a body to blame or hide behind.

We all know that didn’t happen and quite probably couldn’t ever have happened.

I don’t consider myself thick , or xenophobic in the slightest. I do now consider myself extremely naive however. I don’t think I was conned. I think I failed to appreciate the ramifications of Brexit turning out the way they have. That’s on me. I didn’t fail to do so because of any billboards, buses, or speeches from frothing, vile, racists. I failed to see the ramifications because I believed, stupidly with hindsight, that our politicians would work hard to make Brexit work

Thanks for that.

"Our politicians would work hard to make Brexit work" is the giveaway. Because the sensible option that was promised ("We'll still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border") was quickly jettisoned by the Tories in favour of unicorn nonsense, the option of thinking again about the decision to leave became what most sensible politicians wanted.

 

[NPBlue]

I voted for brexit, and argued for it on here occasionally, as well as elsewhere. I still, instinctively, believe this country should be fully independent of both the EU or indeed any other major political grouping of nations. I am unapologetic for this belief, and I don’t say that flippantly, or to be confrontational.

What I do apologise for is that I should never have voted for Brexit with a govt like we had in 2016, and still have today. Maybe it (Brexit ) can only ever be a pipe dream, and being so far aligned with the EU as we were, makes it impossible to have a Brexit that wouldn’t be damaging in the short, medium, and possibly even the longer, term.

I believed, as naive as it sounds today, that if we left there would be a change in govt within a year or two as Brexit was always going to tear the tories apart, and we would end up with a Corbyn govt which would be a closer version of socialist and improve the country, free to make its own rules etc etc etc. I actually believed (and hoped for) the chance to go back to the sort of country we had in the 1970s in a political sense, where we had a clear choice between govts that were very different in philosophy, and offered two different choices for the country and had to answer for their decisions without using the EU as a body to blame or hide behind.

We all know that didn’t happen and quite probably couldn’t ever have happened.

I don’t consider myself thick , or xenophobic in the slightest. I do now consider myself extremely naive however. I don’t think I was conned. I think I failed to appreciate the ramifications of Brexit turning out the way they have. That’s on me. I didn’t fail to do so because of any billboards, buses, or speeches from frothing, vile, racists. I failed to see the ramifications because I believed, stupidly with hindsight, that our politicians would work hard to make Brexit work.

They haven’t of course, and as embarrassing as it is to admit, that they’ve had the chance to royally fuck things up is partly on me and my vote.

I’m passionately, unapologetically, keen to see this country return to being a fairer, kinder, and more equal one.
I thought Brexit would be the first of a great many necessary steps on that journey. I was wrong unfortunately.

I don’t say this as someone who has had a damascene conversion and now supports the idea of the EU. I haven’t and I don’t. I say it as someone who has seen the last few years tear people apart and degrade our country and her international standing, never mind the economy. Perhaps for several generations. I have to take my share of the responsibility for that.
I do however only speak for myself. I don’t, can’t, and wouldn’t even if I could, speak for anyone else who voted for Brexit.

It's nice to see a brexit voter admitting they chose the wrong option, but I fail to understand your assertion the UK should be 'fully independent'.

We were always an independent, sovereign nation, making our own laws without a dictat from Brussels. Yes, we had to pass legislation in the House of Commons to accept rulings from the EU, but we agreed to those rulings with votes by our MEP's in Brussels. That is not undemocratic, and we had the power of veto if we wanted to stop it.

Many leavers before the referendum were decrying our loss of sovereignty because the ECJ was ruling our lives, but if you look at the cases brought before that court from UK rulings subsequently overturned, is it really so bad that Police stations have to have at least one cell suitable for disabled people being held in custody, or Gurkhas returning to Nepal should receive the same pension as UK born soldiers?

I don't think you fully understand what the EU is about, and that's not me trying to patronising. It is a community trying to improve the lives of its people. In many areas, too many to mention, it has achieved that, be it with the safety of electrical equipment, security of employment, emissions from the exhausts of vehicles, and the UK was at the forefront of many of those rules being passed into law.

I personallly couldn't think of a single area in my life that had been adveresly affected by our membership of the EU on a day to day basis, but I could think of many areas where it had been improved. Unfortunately, I now see a bonfire of those protections which is what the right wing press owning barons, with collusion from this tory government, wanted all along.

It's a shame you couldn't see that at the time, and we are all going to pay the price. Our rights for a fairer society which you want were much more secure when we were members of the EU.