R.I.P to the 23 lost in Munich

plattlaneregular said:
As soon as you spot an inaccuracy in any publication you stop reading do you? Or are you making a point? A valid point I might add but there may be an explanation after stopping reading at that juncture.

You win I suppose. A lifelong blue's contribution meaning nothing due to a technicality.

It is a valid point, as is the flag showing the team i highlighted too. No intentions of aiming for a win. Like i said in my original post, we all have differing opinions on this. Some believe the club from Stretford have milked 1958 continuously. I am one of those people.
Fergie going on football focus to talk about Feb 1958 is a prime example.
 
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

He's spot on though. Utd have milked this good and proper. I'll bet you go to any person in any town and ask about the Torino crash and people won't have a clue. I defend the victims of this tragedy as much as anyone but any bitterness comes from united fans like you when they know their blag has been rumbled. Me I'd have played down the event as to not shove it in the face of the victims families, no chance of that with the commercial giant that is Manchester united.
 
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

I've heard about it too.

But it's not constantly rammed down our throats like the events of 6th February 1958 constantly are.

There is no doubt that the rags have used the tragedy to become the world-wide monstrosity that they are now.

And it's YOUR!
 
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

I'm not sure this is the correct thread to discuss this but as it's been brought up, here's my take on it. Whether he's being bitter or not, he does have a point. The Superga air disaster, while a huge story in Italy, didn't get the same blanket international coverage that Munich got. Although only 9 years separated the 2 disasters, Munich got far more exposure. Now as much as this forum loves a good agenda story, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort here. The fact is that in 1958 the football landscape in Europe had changed dramatically when compared to 1949, primarily because of the introduction of European competition. Munich happened when United were on their way back home from a high-profile European fixture and as such the story appeared on far more front pages of foreign newspapers than Superga, whereas Torino were returning from an exhibition match against Benfica. The result of the differences in media coverage of the 2 disasters is that it led to United's name being indelibly marked on the minds of many people who previously knew little or nothing about the club, the outcome being that United gained many new fans - locally, nationally, and internationally. Of course, if United hadn't recovered so well to go on to win the European Cup a decade later then some of that new support may well have drifted away so while they maintained that support as a result of how they performed on the pitch, it was an event off the pitch that led to them supporting United in the first place.

Torino, on the other hand, gained few if any new fans yet at the time of Superga they were by far and away the best team in Italy, were on their way to winning a 5th successive Serie A title, and never fully recovered in the aftermath - this was almost certainly due to them losing their whole first-team squad (10 of whom were full Italian internationals) and coaching staff in the crash. Only 3 players from their senior squad who hadn't travelled remained out of their whole playing and coaching staff.
 
LoveCity said:
Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

I write a lot on the disaster for "Manchester A Football History" and, as with everything I do, I tried to get back to basics and research it from first hand accounts, interview people involved, look at newspapers from the time etc. Too many people when commenting or writing about any event, particularly connected with a football club, focus on the current view and the present day perceptions and myths. I would say this but if you want to know exactly why the disaster matters and what part City played then please read that book (get it from the library if you can't buy it, but please read it to understand).

My aim was to understand what the disaster meant primarily to Mancunians and Manchester in 1958. This was a major tragedy that affected all at the time. It didn't matter whether you were Red or Blue it affected you.

In 1958 City actually had more tributes and information on the disaster in their match programme talking of 'our loss' than United, and that shows how we felt at the time.

City players lost their best friends (anyone who has sat and listened to an ex-Blue talking about losing his best friend and having to tell that player's parents that their son was dead cannot ever use Munich as an insult - it insults ourselves when we do that!). Since the book came out I've also sat and talked with the son of a Utd player who never met his father (his mum was pregnant at the time of the crash) - it really hits you when you hear those stories.

I've also interviewed City squad members who were waiting at the Kardomah cafe in Manchester for their United equivalents as they always did after training, when they heard the news. Very sad.

My writing (and I also wrote an article for free for the MEN to ensure they got a balanced view of what the tragedy meant to Manchester in 2008) focused on the impact in 1958 and to some extent what has happened since. I discovered how badly some former players had been treated by Utd (but it was a different age and other clubs, including City, had treated their own injured players appallingly as well... but the difference was that this was an international tragedy and perhaps should have been viewed differently) and highlighted how there appeared to be 3 levels of victim as far as the wider world was concerned - players then journalists then others. To me all should have been treated the same.

By 2008 the focus was rightly moving on to all the victims, although even now few talk about what happened to the family that lived in the house that the plane hit and how serious injury affected at least one member of that family - and still does assuming she's still alive (I include a little in Manchester A Football History). However, just as the world was starting to talk of the victims in equal terms two negatives as far as I'm concerned happened. First: the FA at an international at Wembley shortly before the 50th anniversary had a minute's silence but listed only the MUFC players not the journalists/others, not the former England capt Frank Swift (they missed this again last night!). Second: City started to focus on Frank Swift as if he was the 'only' victim worth remembering - this was as bad as Utd focusing only on their players and did nothing to prove that Manchester had been together in 1958.

All victims should be remembered equally, so please let's not focus solely on Frank either as that kind of tribalism would have appalled him.

The point of all this I guess is that the Munich tragedy was a tragedy for all the victims, the people injured both in the plane and in the house at Munich, and for anyone with a Manchester background. Back in 1958 Manchester viewed the tragedy as one that affected all and club rivalries did not come into it.

EDIT: I included scans of some of the MCFC match prog tributes in 1958 on my facebook and twitter @garyjameswriter yesterday if anyone's interested: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.facebook.com/GaryJames4?ref=hl#!/photo.php?fbid=10151252064967816&set=a.10150562075652816.375742.289818652815&type=1&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.facebook.com/GaryJames4?ref= ... =1&theater</a>
 
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

I only know about Torino as we have a great poster on here called Lucky Toma.
 
mindmyp's_n_q's said:
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

I only know about Torino as we have a great poster on here called Lucky Toma.

Interesting story about Toma...
 
my mates just moved in with me who's a red.

whilst watching the build up last night he said "i know it's sad but every year? come on leave it for every 10 years"

we live in a nation of mourners so that adds to it, people love to mourn in britain.

and also man utd try and exploit it.
 
Interpolantics said:
LoveCity said:
The Torino air crash actually killed more people but is never really talked about much and is just remembered by the club, it doesn't get this worldwide attention that Munich does. Munich was a horrible tragedy but make no mistake that United have deliberately used that tragedy to help them become the biggest club in England. Gary James' latest book talks about it a little. All tragedies should be remembered and mourned but none should be exploited.

RIP to them all.

If the Torino air crash doesn't get worldwide attention how come you've heard of it?I've also heard of it so it must have got some attention to reach these shores.I also remember the Zambian national team crash of 1993.You're sentiments are full of bitterness tbh.

Surely you mean, "Massive bitterness". It was a tragic event but your club have milked it for all it's worth. What's to be bitter about?
 

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