Racism in Football

[domalino]

Why do people feel like these footballers aren't aware of their support base? People aren't that dumb, you have politicians using subtle dog whistles and hand gestures to appeal to their base, you have washed up actors and social media "influencers" deliberately recording themselves saying or doing certain things and then being invited to Fox news as guests, promoting their books and their image to a particular base. You think Footballers are any different?

We have clubs were their fans take pride in the fact that they have a "strong, right wing, racist" ultra fan base, now if I was an Argentine Footballer looking for the easiest way to make myself relatable to these ultras, what would be the best way to do it? Hmmm...let me see?

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

That's one discussion you probably wouldn't want to have. The outcome might be heartbreaking, look up the views of the new Argentine president and then look up what one of Argentinas most loved presidents Carlos Menem said about Argentina not having the same "problem" Brazil has. I would say it again, these footballers aren't the type to shove food up their nose, they are not damaged upstairs and are not as dumb as we would like to think they are.

 

[Crooked_rain]

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

I get your point you're trying to make...

I just think there's quite difference in the awareness of the lyrics in a song by The Police by a couple choosing a song their wedding dance and a group of players singing songs about black players.

I don't think you can really bring David Bowie's abstract cut and paste lyric writing as an example of lyrics not meaning much to the listeners as an example that players don't realise what they're singing about when singing about black people

Even if you want to bring the hip hop example into it, well a Dr Dre song may use that word multiplie times but the topic of the song is not offensive towards black people. the topic of this song by the Argentinian players is essentially saying black people are not French because of their african heritage and bringing their passport into it. It's entirely different.

 

[domalino]

I get your point you're trying to make...

I just think there's quite difference in the awareness of the lyrics in a song by The Police by a couple choosing a song their wedding dance and a group of players singing songs about black players.

I don't think you can really bring David Bowie's abstract cut and paste lyric writing as an example of lyrics not meaning much to the listeners as an example that players don't realise what they're singing about when singing about black people

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

I'm afraid that drunk excuse is a cop out and not a very good one.

 

[kunaguero10]

Is it that different to "2 world wars, 1 world cup" or 10 German bombers? Ji Sung Park eats dogs? Cisse's family at the bottom of the sea? "Adebayor, Adebayor, your dad washes elephants, your mum is a whore"

All that's changed is cameraphones so you see the players joinging in.

I must have missed an England footballer singing 10 German bombers after a win

 

[Crooked_rain]

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

Well it's my opinion

given the fact I have quite close ties to that country with my wife being half Argentinian and knowing their culture quite well and their history, I would say they players are fully aware of what they were singing and it wasn't just a case of them being pissed up. But again, it really is just my opinion and you have yours.

maybe they're not inherently racist in their every day life but neither am I and I don't go around singing racist songs after a good scoop.

I think there's enjoying yourself, having a drink and a good knees up...and then there's singing racist songs

 

[domalino]

I must have missed an England footballer singing 10 German bombers after a win

Yeah, because it happened before 2008.

If you think no England players have ever sung along to that song then I don't know what to say to you...

 

[Crooked_rain]

Yeah, because it happened before 2008.

If you think no England players have ever sung along to that song then I don't know what to say to you...

Which England players were singing it? I've never seen it but maybe they did

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

Besides, if English players today were singing on a live stream, I'm sure they'd be called out over it.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Well it's my opinion

given the fact I have quite close ties to that country with my wife being half Argentinian and knowing their culture quite well and their history, I would say they players are fully aware of what they were singing and it wasn't just a case of them being pissed up. But again, it really is just my opinion and you have yours.

maybe they're not inherently racist in their every day life but neither am I and I don't go around singing racist songs after a good scoop.

I think there's enjoying yourself, having a drink and a good knees up...and then there's singing racist songs

I mean there are certain songs River Plate fans consider derogatory when sung by Boca Juniors fans and vice versa, these people are very well aware of that concept, so to say that they have normalized racism to the point that they aren't aware of the derogatory nature of this particular song is just a weird take.

The Germans sang the infamous Gaucho dance song after winning the 2014 world cup and the entire Argentina lost it, the media out there criticized Germans and eventually the Germans had to apologize.

Let's not brush this under the carpet as some kind of "drunk, jolly" moment. They are very well aware of the concept of a derogatory song, it hasn't been normalized and they know it.