Rebuild

I think it did start last summer with KDB and Sterling and to a lesser extent Delph and we are are led to believe an attempt to get Pogba. I think they were all bought with Peps team in mind. The only position we don't seem to have readied the squad in some way is defence especially full backs.

I would agree that last summer had Pep in mind with the buys which perhaps begs the question that this season we have fallen down between not quite a Pep team and not quite a Pellers team leading to a lack of clear identity and clarity. Or I am just making excuses. Who knows.

The one thing I hope above almost everything else is that Pep brings back our ability to control games.
 
A 'rebuild' or an 'overhaul' or whatever you want to call it has been long overdue. However having Guardiola be the manager when you do that overhaul ensures you will get the best players around. So it couldn't really have been done previously the way it will be done this summer.

I'm fully coming round to the idea we're going to have a record breaking summer in terms of the caliber of players we bring in and the amounts we spend. We should wish the old guard well, but time waits for no man and there's fuck all room for sentiment in football these days.

That best sums up what is needed on the pitch.
 
Copa america centenary edition mate

Yes, so I've discovered. But much as I like players who show allegiance to their country, Zaba would be mad to continue playing international football. He really needs a break if he's to continue playing for City or any other top team.
 
The whole back four needs replacing with Zabba, Clichy and Kompany kept as squad players and the other two expensive muppet failures at centre half moved on along with Demi. Two or three top class midfield players and a top winger,either move some on or keep as squad players and a top,top goalscorer who stays fit to play with/rotate with Aguero.
 
Mangala is the one on your list that I would possibly disagree with I think he has the ability but his problems come from his decision making and concentration.
Its not even that, a lot has to do with how we currently play for me, give him a better setup, and I think he could become a great City defender, he has all the attributes, and given better coaching, and a better (simpler) way of defending, I still think he can turn it round. I'll add Fernando into that equation, again, given a simpler way of playing (ie a more compact team), he/we'll improve hugely with many of the current players still good enough. Pep demands high standards, good, but he's also efficient, and that means players doing what they're good at, and not expected to do things they're not good at, and not all his players are expected to play like Messi.

I think there will be less revolution than many think.
 
Its not even that, a lot has to do with how we currently play for me, give him a better setup, and I think he could become a great City defender, he has all the attributes, and given better coaching, and a better (simpler) way of defending, I still think he can turn it round. I'll add Fernando into that equation, again, given a simpler way of playing (ie a more compact team), he/we'll improve hugely with many of the current players still good enough. Pep demands high standards, good, but he's also efficient, and that means players doing what they're good at, and not expected to do things they're not good at, and not all his players are expected to play like Messi.

I think there will be less revolution than many think.
I'm obviously excited about the prospect of Guardiola coming to City, and there is no but. I do want to temper that by saying we can't expect miracles next season. We'll get rid and get a few in, city as a club don't need overhauling, the stop gap manager is on his way out and things will get better. If they don't it's down to management (the dof).
 
I'm obviously excited about the prospect of Guardiola coming to City, and there is no but. I do want to temper that by saying we can't expect miracles next season. We'll get rid and get a few in, city as a club don't need overhauling, the stop gap manager is on his way out and things will get better. If they don't it's down to management (the dof).

I agree. Guardiola will have very little time to work with the squad this summer. There isn't going to be a complete upheaval of the playing staff. It will be a gradual process. With a few exceptions, players will be given the chance to adapt to his methods. The major changes will take place in 2017.
 
I think there will be less revolution than many think.

I think too many people are fixating on the semantics of evolution/revolution/rebuild/new team etc etc. As I said somewhere else in the thread we bought four players last summer and six the summer that Pellegrini took charge so it's safe to assume we'll be getting 5 or 6 new players just judging by the way we've worked in the past with new managers.

Obviously none of us know what Pep will do, but we can look at his past decision making process at Barca and Bayern and at least be guided a little bit by it. So for example, I've little doubt that Mangala could be in the right set up a fantastic defender. But in a Pep set up where the centre halves have to be able to play like midfielders, where they are expected to deal with having the ball at their feet under pressure and work a way out. I'm not convinced at all.

Personally I also think there's a lot of contradictions floating around at present (as I said yesterday). We've not bought a world class player since 2010/2011 has been a regular refrain on here recently. Txiki's bought badly basically since he came in and the squad is unbalanced certainly in it's age profile. Again something i've read regularly on here. Yet people don't expect Guardiola to want four or five world class additions to the squad immediately? I find that very hard to believe.

Finally there's the nostalgic/sentimentalists who somehow think that Pep's going to perform some kind of magical Benjamin Button trick on the likes of Silva/Zaba/Toure etc and they're suddenly going to be five years younger and five years fitter.

IMO it's far more unrealistic to expect Guardiola to come in under the weight of expectation and pressure and media focus there will be, and not want basically a new spine for the team.
 
Have to disagree with anyone who feels no major overhaul coming. We have been treading water for 2-3 years. This is not what the owners want as part of there global vision. They want the cherry on the cake and that cherry is a city team winning comfortably.
Pep hadn't come to re-invent the same players to compete for top 4.
The Chinese situation was created to produce money, nothing more.
We will see a big overhaul this summer of quality young players to take us to the next level hopefully and provide a new spines for the next 5 years.
Get ready for the you bought the league jibes to come again.
 
We will see a big overhaul this summer of quality young players to take us to the next level hopefully and provide a new spines for the next 5 years.
Get ready for the you bought the league jibes to come again.

Which to me seems like the only logical and sensible thing to do. I can't think of one decent argument for why you wouldn't in our position use the fact you've landed Pep and he's a huge managerial draw for players, to go and get the best young players around and to as you say build a new team for the next five years rather than eeking an extra 12 months out of 30+ players.

Not saying that we will sell everyone but basically the squad players are gonna get sold (Navas, Fernando, Demichelis, Kolarov, Willy, Bony, etc), and some 'first team' players are gonna become squad players (Nasri, Silva, Fernandinho, Delph, etc), with new first team players coming in. Whether you define that as evolution or revolution or a squad rebuild or a squad refresh is up to you.
 
Have to disagree with anyone who feels no major overhaul coming. We have been treading water for 2-3 years. This is not what the owners want as part of there global vision. They want the cherry on the cake and that cherry is a city team winning comfortably.
Pep hadn't come to re-invent the same players to compete for top 4.
The Chinese situation was created to produce money, nothing more.
We will see a big overhaul this summer of quality young players to take us to the next level hopefully and provide a new spines for the next 5 years.
Get ready for the you bought the league jibes to come again.
You're allowed to disagree - that's what we're here for. I'd rather we manage the transition over a couple of Windows instead of 10 out 10 in which some are advocating.
 
You're allowed to disagree - that's what we're here for. I'd rather we manage the transition over a couple of Windows instead of 10 out 10 in which some are advocating.
Agree, personally like to see 4-5 Auguero class players. We will have more than enough if he utilises academy. I see 200m+ being on these players and suspect deals with agents done.
 
Agree, personally like to see 4-5 Auguero class players. We will have more than enough if he utilises academy. I see 200m+ being on these players and suspect deals with agents done.
Yeah that's where I am. Up to six players who are capable of coming straight into the first team, cut adrift the deadwood and promote a couple of youngsters would be a great start and enough to freshen up the squad. I'd want the likes of Zabba and Silva to be given 12 months to show what they're worth, even if it means as squad players.
It's going to be interesting whatever happens.
 
Which to me seems like the only logical and sensible thing to do. I can't think of one decent argument for why you wouldn't in our position use the fact you've landed Pep and he's a huge managerial draw for players, to go and get the best young players around and to as you say build a new team for the next five years rather than eeking an extra 12 months out of 30+ players.

Not saying that we will sell everyone but basically the squad players are gonna get sold (Navas, Fernando, Demichelis, Kolarov, Willy, Bony, etc), and some 'first team' players are gonna become squad players (Nasri, Silva, Fernandinho, Delph, etc), with new first team players coming in. Whether you define that as evolution or revolution or a squad rebuild or a squad refresh is up to you.

If we did what you are saying there, it would effectively be replacing the 'squad' players with better players rather than tearing apart the current team.

The players who come in, must surely then be the ones we want ? If those players are not all available, we surely don't want to do a Mancini & blow every penny on 2nd or 3rd choice players just because the money is there.

So because of that, I would be surprised if wholesale changes are made straight away. A few in, a few out, is what I would expect, with perhaps one or two 'surprise' sales.
 
Have to be honest and say I'm expecting 7 or 8 out with six or so coming in, as well as the promotion of two or three youth players.

You only need to look at our squad to see the lack of quality we possess, especially in central midfield and fullback. You could make a case that Yaya, Zaba, Kolarov, Fernando, Navas, Demichelis, Caballero and Mangala could all go.

Pep, as good as he may be, can't suddenly eradicate poor form of players, and make a 33 year old gallop around like somebody who's 22. This squad is ageing, and is desperate need of reinvigoration. I'd imagine the foundations are already being made for this summer, and the meeting in Amsterdam was either confirmation of targets in or players out.
 
Why would you want to sell Willy, Kolarov, Fernando or Navas.

Only players I'd be looking to let go are Bony and Toure. Mangala possibly, but he has another chance now to show what he can do.

So keep fernando and sell yaya?

You couldn't make it up
 
Yeah that's where I am. Up to six players who are capable of coming straight into the first team, cut adrift the deadwood and promote a couple of youngsters would be a great start and enough to freshen up the squad. I'd want the likes of Zabba and Silva to be given 12 months to show what they're worth, even if it means as squad players.
It's going to be interesting whatever happens.

When Joe , Vinny (when available ) , David, even Kun know that they are never certain to start in our 11 each week then we know we are on the right track.
 
When Joe , Vinny (when available ) , David, even Kun know that they are never certain to start in our 11 each week then we know we are on the right track.
I've got no problem with every single player fighting for a first team place. My argument all along has been there are plenty of players we can let go before we start talking about the likes of Silva, Kompany, Zabaleta etc. If they are part of a better all round squad then it can only benefit us.
 

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