Ref Watch City Games - 2023/24

They all worry me!!! I have said before we need to be perfect to win!!! I don’t want us to but when we get tugged ( happens a lot) we need to go down and get their players booked earlier in games!!!
 
Your logic is flawed. You say incompetence is the most probable explanation, but the most probable explanation is the one where you don't have to invent facts to fit the theory.

If it is a mistake: (a) this requires an explanation of why he even considered playing an advantage after Haaland had been fouled. He recovered his feet, yes, but was still in his own half, had few passing options available, was facing away from goal and travelling in the general direction of his own corner flag. Eight or nine times out of ten (my own broad assessment) you don't actually see any advantage arising in those situations. So his reasons for viewing that as a potential advantage are highly surprising for an elite level ref

(b) it also requires an explanation of why he appeared to signal that he was playing an advantage when, according to Webb, he didn't intend to do so. This is an elite level referee who has years of experience behind him and is judged (amongst other things) on his ability to communicate effectively. It is possible that somebody well used to using simultaneous hand gestures to indicate the reason for a decision made such a gesture without actually meaning to, but it is pretty exceptional. I cannot think of another example of any referee at elite level doing this ever. Maybe you can.

Simultaneous with the hand gesture was him not blowing his whistle at that point. Initially when the challenge was made, the ref put his whistle towards his mouth but then drew back from blowing. Whether he had decided to play the advantage at that point or whether he was waiting and seeing, the impact of that was clearly that Haaland thought he was playing on, that is obvious from his actions in getting up and playing the pass and his reaction to the whistle being blown only after he had put Grealish through on goal. Whether he says 'play on' or not, the context of his actions clearly led Haaland at least (not to mention 50,000 supporters in the stand) to believe he had either decided to play an advantage or was waiting and seeing. If he had decided to penalise the foul, these actions are inexplicable. On any view, signalling something that you didn't intend to signal is a major error.

(c) It also requires an explanation of why, if the explanation is that he was waiting to see if an advantage accrued, he didn't then wait to see if any advantage accrued. If the 'wait and see' explanation is correct, it beggars belief that he allowed play to develop while Haaland was recovering his feet but then blew up when he had done so and had executed the pass. You have said that he blew because he thought it likely Spurs would recover the ball. That is just inventing a reason. There is absolutely no evidence that this is why he blew. That suggestion is no more and no less speculation than the thought that the Spurs defenders would have caught up with Grealish, or that Grealish was offside, or whatever. You have also said he would not have wanted to bring the game back for the foul if Spurs recovered possession. Again, this is inventing excuses for why he did not wait and see whether an advantage would develop. I agree that if he doesn't commit the third error we probably don't look at the other two, but that doesn't mean they weren't errors. But if they were errors, they were absolute stinkers.

So the 'incompetence' theory involves coming up with explanations for these three major errors, each of which was committed within a very short period of time, each of which benefitted the offending team, each of which was committed by this elite level referee with years of experience behind him.

The 'incompetence' theory also requires an explanation of why, when other high profile errors see referees being 'rested' in the EPL the following week, this one is simply waved through as 'human error.' The reaction on his face is consistent with him making a mistake, but it's equally consistent with the knowledge that he reversed a decision when he should not have done so. Either way, the reaction you mention was not surprising. This is simply confirmation bias at work.

The only other plausible explanation is that he initially played an advantage (which he signalled) and then changed his mind. That is precisely what it looked like in real time, it is precisely what it looked like on the replay, and it requires zero facts to be invented to fit the theory.

Why he changed his mind is a different question.

There’s ultimately no difference between the two aside from whether he knowingly signalled or not, and that doesn’t matter much anyway aside from making him look an idiot - he could have shouted for advantage and still brought it back. To all intensive purposes, he is playing advantage and then changes his mind and brings it back.

It doesn’t need the rest explaining for it to be incompetence as if he then just let play go it would have been a great bit of refereeing overall that most others wouldn’t have done - it just needs that last action explaining. If he got that bit right, then every action he would have done would have been to our benefit rather than Spurs’s.

No one is inventing any facts, they are just discussing his potential thought processes, which is exactly what you are doing too.
 
The tackle/assault on Foden doesn't make any sense, but how many decisions against us this season have?

A 2-footed jump and stamp attack is seen by the referee and not even deemed to be a foul.

Play continues and after a minute or so the game stops and we are told that VAR is looking at the incident.

Here's where I'm confused.

After the VAR intervention, a free kick is awarded to us, so the fact we arrive at here is that the ref MISSED the foul. He saw the incident but didn't deem it to be anything other than a fair tackle...

So surely that's a clear and obvious error(?)

They have checked to see if it's a red card offence that has been missed, so does this not lead us to infer that it's definitely a yellow card offence?

I know VAR has limitations on its usage, but if they were playing fair surely common sense should lead the protocol that this is the PERFECT example of when a ref should be asked to look at the monitor?
Or maybe even a ref with even a shred of integrity would demand to see a replay of the event?
He knows by this point that he has missed a possible red card offence, he also knows that he has missed a definite yellow card, the VAR knows that he has missed a red card offence and also a definite yellow card offence, so WHY would they both be OK with not issuing that yellow card?

Refs often go and see the monitor when they've made a wrong call, and after the event has been shown to them they often issue cards or rescind cards. Why not this time?
Wasn't the free kick for the subsequent foul on Silva?
 
Every single referee that officiates our games should never referee us again according to this thread.

People seem to want the club to go nuclear about any perceived injustice.
In fairness that applies to all clubs. United fans think Taylor is a City fan, City fans think he’s a United fan. All clubs fans hate Attwell, Arsenal hate Gillett as they think he’s a City fan, yet on VAR he didn’t call for a red at Luton…

The tinfoil hat brigade have been on it for years though. This time last year there was ‘no way city will be allowed to win 3 in a row’, then ‘no way will city be allowed to win the cup’, then ‘no way will city be allowed to win a treble’…

Having completed football last year, the tinfoilers insist ‘no way will city be allowed to win 4 in a row’, as if City haven’t won 7 of the last 12 titles and of course, conspiracy theorists aren’t rational people, there are still people who think the earth is flat, George bush blew up the twin towers, Prince Phillip was a lizard (maybe fair that one…), but even those guys are more rational than thinking the PL and PGMOL are running a high level conspiracy to stop City.

And let’s be honest, it wasn’t Hooper who cost City a win v Spurs - had Haaland not missed an open goal and City not given away 3 pub league goals it wouldn’t have even been a talking point.
 
Wasn't the free kick for the subsequent foul on Silva?
You know, you're probably right. Does my entire argument fall down on that fact? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? I yearn for the simpler times of old when I used to understand the rules of football and know when they were being manipulated. Strange times we live in :)
 
I'd like to know what caused him to change his mind from thinking there was an advantage to thinking there wasn't.

If they came out with something a bit more believable than "I didn't realise" I'd be satisfied that a genuine mistake was made.
If he didn't realise he had his arm pointing forward in the universally acknowledged signal for play on, advantage, then this must have been a subconscious act. Fair enough, just about acceptable.

So what changed to make him consciously decide City weren't about to advantage from the situation? Let's have the explanation for that, please, Mr Webb.
 
No one is. None of us know Hooper’s thought process, so people are speculating how he got to his decision.

I think it’s a crap decision and others believe it is bent. Nobody believes it was a reflex. I think we’re all in agreement that it was a deliberate action.

Neither can be proven.

But Hooper had told us through Webb & we are speculating it’s bullshit.
 
But Hooper had told us through Webb & we are speculating it’s bullshit.
Webb has given a response that we all think isn’t true. That doesn’t definitively mean it was corruption.

He didn’t offer a reason why he didn’t wait that second longer, just that Hooper now wishes he has.

The rest is speculation, unless Hooper answers questions about it.
 

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